"Remedies" and "Therapies" A Sober Second Thought...

From a quick look at the first link the bias of the website is for standard western medicine, so of course they bag out all things alternate...no surprises there!

Sorry but I think western medicine is good for trauma and promoting big pharma drugs...which kill a lot of people each year, but they are not quacks!!! 🙄
Peer review studies are only performed by like minded, big pharma sponsored groups with a pre-determined bias so also don't prove anything.
If alternatives are quackery then how did the human race survive to date?

I'm not saying that all alternative medicine is right but then not all western medicine is right either.
There was an article on the first link that said mercury fillings are okay, but they use to think mercury enema's were okay too, but mercury in light bulbs is not okay.
Come on there is more quackery in western med than you will ever find in the alternatives.

I will go back now to what has worked in my life and the lives of many around me and be happy in the knowledge that it has worked with many very serious conditions 😀

I absolutely agree with you Cares.

I take responsibility for my own decisions with regard to taking alternative remedies and treatments, unlike the drug companies who kill thousands each year along with their "back scratchers" dishing them out like candy. In a SHTF world, I can't help but wonder what the pharma faithful people will do to help themselves if they no longer had such free and ready access to drugs, hospitals, and doctors.

A Short History of Medicine;
2000 B.C. – “Here, eat this root.”
1000 B.C. – “That root is heathen, say this prayer.”
1850 A.D. – “That prayer is superstition, drink this potion.”
1940 A.D. – “That potion is snake oil, swallow this pill.”
1985 A.D. – “That pill is ineffective, take this antibiotic.”
2000 A.D. – “That antibiotic is artificial. Here, eat this root.”
- Author Unknown

About all I can add to Grace's thoughts, is this.

I went to the doc and he confirmed what was up, he gave me a RX for pills.

I got the pills and did some research on them and the problem. Tossed the pills in the back of cupboard, went out to the garden and got plain ole garden sage. Processed to make and drink said tea several times a day ( or as I needed) and that solved the problem very shortly and in a very natural way. And no nasty side effects.

Over a year later when I went back to the doc and he asked if I was taking those pills. I said ''nope never did....why?''
He said if I was 'to taking stop them cause they were causing other problems..'
oooohhh k. Talk about a sobering moment!

Then he asked how the problem was, I said ''cured.''
He smiled and asked ''how ?''
Told him how and he made a bit of a face at the thought of sage tea.... but he smiled as he said, ''he would have to remember that one.''
Then I was smiling.

Dang, ya think I should have charged him for that info.?? 😆

All it takes is a little research. Look at what grows in your area and apply it to what's ailing you. Other plants you may have to grow, but they are out there for the taking.
There is a lot out there that can not hurt you and is safe, if one cares to search them out and study up on them.

Many rather go and get a quick fix from the docs...until there is no more available, it doesn't work or causes more problems.....then what?

I decided on this many years ago, cause meds and me do not get along!
So I choose to be responsible for my and mine, the natural way and eating preventatives (garlic,onions, to many to list) as well.

thecrownsown, I am curious to know why you wrote ...."I'm not posting this to challenge peoples belief's. You can never change someone's mind if they are true believers...no matter what facts are laid before them showing otherwise. For those here that are believers, this post is wasting your time" ....?

So are you only wanting responses from people who are like minded to yourself with regard to conventional medicine as opposed to alternatives and will back up your own opinions and views on the subject? Would the rest of us "believers" be as you put it, "wasting our time", by bringing a knife to a gun fight in your opinion?

Also what needs to be considered is that not everybody reacts the same way to plant based medicine, just the same as diet and exercise doesn't have a 'one size fits all' effect neither does alternative medicine, but that doesn't make it quackery.
It is western medicine, just like modern education, that tries to put everyone in the same box.

I don't use aromatherapy but I'm not going to say to someone who does that it is rubbish, if it works for them then that is fantastic...live and let live, each to their own...I only ask for the same respect in return.

I have had a pulmonary embolism, six heart attacks (DVT), and an aortic aneurysm all before I turned 30 not to mention half a dozen less serious complaints, and a bad kidney infection years later...the doctors said "If I made forty, I would have been in for a double heart bypass".
Well I am now 41 and ALL these problems were corrected with alternative medicine using a mix of herbal medicine, homeopathy and radionics.
So I think it goes beyond just a belief as to whether these practices work or if it is just all in our heads.

Whilst I admit there are still snake oil salesmen around with one cure or every disease, the whole bundle of natural therapies should never be thrown into the same lot.

I have studied Naturopathy (didn't finish because our house burned down with all my books in it groan and I have been to disorganized since to finish it) but at one of the lectures I attended we heard a lecture from a natural therapist who was woefully out of date with current knowledge, at the end of the lecture the principle asked our opinions and some people were VERY scathing...he just chuckled and said yes but he is getting good results and that can't be argued.
The point is that even though they weren't doing the very best that could be done, it was a lot better than where they had been before so their health improved and that is the most important thing.
As students we were learning about how bad soy was 10 years before the general public became aware of it...the principle had warned us that it takes years before the information becomes common knowledge.

No-one on God's little green planet could convince me that it is quackery and the suggestion itself it quite offensive to me 👿

Bump. 🙂

So long as there are unverified treatments, and pseudo health/science products/therapies, etc. being broadcast on this forum, I thought that bumping this one single thread questioning them should stick around too. One lonely thread questioning the abundance of unproven and unchallenged "therapies/comments/experiences" shouldn't be to controversial compared to the overwhelming and zealous conviction of those who believe in untested, unproven "alternative therapies"

I would encourage all to read the initial post, the links and then the responses given so far.

A few more that may help to give another view:

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/lady_homeopathy_strikes_back/

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/2052-jref-and-phact-issue-challenge-to-qtherapeutic-touchq-practitioners.html

Are you sponsored by a pharmaceutical company????

Why are you trying to convince people that something doesn't work if they have experienced that it works for them.
Once again your links are biased.

Are you sponsored by a pharmaceutical company????

Why are you trying to convince people that something doesn't work if they have experienced that it works for them.
Once again your links are biased.

I will quote you " .. if they have experience that works FOR THEM". I will ask why are YOU pushing your personal experience as being what others will experience? Why are YOU pushing your personal experience as scientific fact? Why are you putting others at risk with remedies that are unproven scientifically? If I use what you propose and have a negative experience that can be scientifically linked to your advice are you prepared to compensate myself or my heirs? It is fine to give an opinion but that is all it is. YOURS and OTHERS PERSONAL OPINION..... NOTHING ELSE.
If you state it as such that is fine but when you present it as FACT and degrade other opinions and actual fact then you are dangerous.

JAB

Are you claiming I am dangerous when it is big pharma that kills 1000's of people each year...excuse me but I haven't killed anyone through sharing my personal experiences and nor do I suggest people try anything that they are not comfortable with and I only expect to be treated the same way!
There are many in alternative medicines that I will not consult like people who read auras or do Chrystal therapy but I'm not going to tell anyone that they shouldn't.
My son fell off a roof and hurt his back, we took him to the hospital and they declared that there was no injury and yet even 12 months later he was still experiencing pain and weakness and his left arm was shaky, yet still we were told there was nothing wrong!
We took him to get acupuncture which a good friend recommended a good practitioner, we went along and after an hour he was able to get up and there was no pain, and this lasted for over 8 months before he started to get a little pain again after a hard days work.
So are you suggesting my friend was wrong, or that the practitioner was wrong or the treatment was wrong?!?
I unlike you appreciated their assistance and to see a formerly active boy be able to move again without pain was a joy and if someone tells me it is bogus and that western medicine is scientifically proven and effective then why could they do absolutely nothing for him.

Each to their own, nobody should be able to say we must follow one way or the other.
If some believes that vaccinations are safe and effective good on them, I have never once told someone not to do it even though I have a different view.
The doctors gave me a death sentence or major surgery as my only options....with alternative medicine I was able to avoid all surgery and be in a healthy condition 20 years on...other can call that a placebo if they like but after 20 years and a GP who smiles and shakes his head at me when he sees me, I don't care what anyone thinks, I'm alive and damned happy to be so and if you call me irresponsible for speaking about it then that is your problem.

You didn't address my statement...only reinforced your ideology that "big pharma kills 1000's of people each year". Please show me your facts and statistics that show consistent results. Again I will say that your personal experience is anecdotal and nothing more. Certainly it worked for your son... but then again perhaps it was simply coincidence that the timing of the accupuncture and onset of wellness coincided. You believe it was the accupuncture and that is fine... but that does NOT make for a bona fide treatment. To rebut your statement that big pharma kills 1000's of people a year... I am certain that with the lack of big pharma, millions would have otherwise died. How many die as a result of the failure of natural medicine?..... probably 1000's more as well. Where can you show that the practice of and belief in natural medicine has caused 'no harm'? You can't any more than you can show that big pharma has caused 1000's of deaths. it is a belief.... as opposed to a fact. Anyone is potentionally dangerous who espouses opinion disguised as fact, regardless of the subject.

JAB

Firstly I don't think that I need to prove that all or any of the alternative therapies work.

Secondly it is well known that big pharma drugs have killed 1000's of people and there are numerous articles on the net that are referenced that show it. I never claimed that nobody has ever died because of an alternative therapy or that they are all legitimate or that you 'must' take my or anybody else's advise on them. http://www.medicinekillsmillions.com/articles/death-by-medicine-is-leading-cause-of-death.html

Thirdly there are many nations around the world that use a combination of western and alternative medicines within their medical systems

Fourthly it is well known that big pharma and the government are in bed together

Fifthly I always find it amusing that when someone gets relief from western medicine it was because of the medicine, but with alternatives it is always deemed a coincidence...well then there has been a hell of a lot of coincidences with both minor and serious ailments in my life and that of my extended family...aren't we a lucky bunch of people 😆

...and finally in a SHTF situation where western medicine is unavailable and I get an abrasion from an unclean surface and get an infection that would without antibiotic be potentially life threatening I won't be crying about the lack of antibiotic because I know it can be easily looked after from my garden...that and many other illness' besides.

I for one, and there appear to be many others, enjoy hearing of what other people have read and practiced in the way of alternatives. If you or anybody else don't like the advice, then don't follow it, nobody is forcing you to do so, you need only ignore it. In your 'opinion' it is quackery, but in our 'opinion' it is not.
But when the SHTF I will be very thankful for the knowledge I have gained....whilst you may come to regret it.

Each to their own ❗

From Dr Mercola

Which are More Dangerous: Drugs or Alternative Medicine?

FoodConsumer.org recently reported on an Australian surveillance study that found alternative medicine had caused the death of four children between the years of 2001 and 2003.

A total of 39 reports of side effects attributable to the use of alternative medicine were also found.

When you compare that to the death statistics of modern drugs, the answer to the subhead above becomes rather self-evident.

That's not to say that alternative medicine has a flawless safety record. However, if safety is a concern for you and your family, opting for a well-established natural folk remedy over a drug is surely going to provide you with a far greater safety margin when you need to treat a symptom. (The best "remedy" however, is going to be an overall healthy lifestyle that focuses on a nutrient-dense diet, exercise, toxin avoidance and stress relief.)

That said, let's compare the death statistics of alternative medicine with the mortality statistics of the conventional drug route.

Dr. Null and colleagues published an oft-cited report in 2003 about the death toll caused by drugs and conventional medical treatments, which included the following statistics.

Adverse drug reactions – 106,000 deaths/year
Medical errors – 98,000 deaths/year
Unnecessary procedures – 37,136 deaths/year
Surgery – 32,000 deaths/year
Additionally, a June 2010 report in the Journal of General Internal Medicine, which analyzed 62 million death certificates from 1976 to 2006 (the most recent year available), found that almost a quarter-million of those deaths were coded as having occurred in a hospital setting due to medication errors.

In an AMA article discussing the study, one co-author quoted as stating that "medication errors are the second-leading cause of accidental death, and the only kind of accidental death that is increasing over time."

An estimated 450,000 preventable medication-related adverse events occur in the U.S. every year, and adverse drug reactions cause injuries or death in 1 of 5 hospital patients.

The costs of adverse drug reactions to society are more than $136 billion annually – greater than the total cost of cardiovascular or diabetic care.

So, going back to the fact that over 25 percent of American youths are now taking prescription drugs on a chronic basis, you don't need a crystal ball to see what the future has in store...

JAB, while I appreciate your frustration I don't want this thread to turn into a pissing match with true believers. As I said in my first post, this thread isn't for them (though they seem drawn to it.) You will never be able to discuss fact, science, evidence with a believer because they simply believe. Anything that happens that fits into that confirmation of there belief is cheered and held up as "proof." Anything that doesn't is met with harsh opposition; and be damned with experimentation or reality that may uphold or even dismiss an assumption for the truth.

To put it in perhaps a different light: I personally believe that God blessed us with his presence as a man, was nailed to a Cross and sacrificed himself for me. I symbolically reenact his last meal weekly and because of this I will be carried up to heaven on that belief...now try and argue that i'm wrong. 🙂 Get my drift? You can't, I won't let you because it's my belief. This story may sound very familiar to you, you may even share my belief, or it may sound totally absurd. But that is a moot point. There can't be an argument because there is no way to prove it one way or the other. Thats why we call it belief. 🙂 Based on personal experiences, maybe emotions, or a plethora of other variables my belief is my belief. However, when it comes to the real world, we need to check that belief at the door and not let it sway proper research, experimentation that gives us repeatable conclusions. And make no doubt, even in mainstream faith groups there are those that profess "faith healing", prayer in lieu of treatments for everything from blood transfusions, to cancer....its not just relegated to those who hop on the "natural" or "homeopathic" religion. To each there own. But where we must draw the line is where believers sway unsuspecting people into there religion and it can cause harm.

This thread is for those who will visit the forum, and read the huge amount of pseudo information presented without getting a picture of whats been proven and effective out there. My original post gave some of the warning signs of "alternative approaches" which are quite evident in the responses. But anyone reading this SHOULD read all responses and think about them. Don't discount everything said, even by the "believers" here. Having critical eyes on your work is essential to the scientific process even though the "believers" agenda's may be suspect. The beauty of science is that you can and should challenge it to ensure that yes the information is valid and has proof of such.

Mainstream medicine isn't an Us vs. Them. The creation of this conflict is part of the basic knee jerk reaction of anyone who believes there faith is challenged. Mainstream medicine simply "is." It grows as more research is done, it changes as older information and applications become obsolete with new information and research, and it continues to do so. It will incorporate what may have been "alternative" where there is sufficient proof it is real. Albeit the majority of "alternative" therapies have no proof, research has been done and some applications are incorporated into the main body of medicine, and others show promise..but that can go either way dependent on more research. This doesn't scare or challenge modern medicine. It simply "is." Modern Medicine and Science has been incorporating different therapies, practices, for years. But not based on someones ideology or belief. It incorporates that which can be tested, and proven. For example: Acupuncture has been proven, tested and is in use in various applications. We can provide the experiments, the controls, the ongoing research....but also THE LIMITATIONS. Because it may work in particular applications in physiotherapy, etc. does not open the gates to every application that the imagination can try and pseudo logically explain...

My next post will have some interesting links on the placebo effect, which has had some great results in clinical testing and I haven't touched on here. It was interesting to watch Dr. Marla last weekend on CTV and learn that some "natural" and even "homeopathic" prescriptions for things like menopause and migraines work almost as good as placebo's!

thecrownsown.... You are correct. Thanks for the clarification. I was clearly trying to apply logic and science to the religion of natural and homeopathic treatment with the inevitable result. I will walk away and hope that people do their due diligence before accepting and acting on some of what they read here.

JAB