People & Power - Ukraine: a dangerous game - AL Jazeera documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ingc8NbLEPI

Canadian Institute of Humanities (Vancouver) tells their take of this Ukraine crisis and Canada's involvement https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIjMApxHYdw
These are more of our scholars who are now standing against Harper and Canada's involvement in this crisis. Seems these folks went there and claim close to 1 million refugees have now fled to Russia. They walk you thru the political aspects that caused this turmoil. Another interesting video.

I do also like the fact that these educated persons have drawn the same conclusions as I have and I can therefore profess not to have influenced any of you wrongly with any assumptions I've made throughout this thread.

/i]

Scholars? What scholars? Roger Annis is a fucking communist. Reading through some of his articles, talking about the "working class" and imperialist countries, he made me puke. 😡

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/world/archives/2014/10/20141010-131038.html

RT News?

Communists?

In 8 pages of youtube videos...all I have discovered is Knuckles political affiliation. 🙂

Will the next 8 pages show me something new?

Time for someone to start their own blog?

The links I presented have the speakers state their credentials at the start or close to it. If they are shady ones, our education system should deny them access from teaching in our universities.

So lets look at the 1st link that Prom has presented. It states that there is no conflict other than that created by Putin. If this were true, the first simple question one should ask is why are they then so determined to kill those neighbours in the east? If they are so determined to stay as one country, they must also be willing to work out their differences. They also deny being fascists yet impose fascist rules. This has lead them to the path of attempting to commit genocide with the continuous shelling of the east. Have those of the east attacked the west yet? They have done nothing but defend themselves to date. This video is so obvious a lie and yet you swallow it all, hook, line and sinker.

I present evidence daily to show what is going on, not just my own suppositions. I explain what I conclude from the events and why. Since you come back with vague accusations that I am biased, it is time for you to present your perspective, don't just generalize. Be specific about each event and present your reason as to why my conclusion is incorrect. You need to present proper evidence to prove your own conclusion to show others your conclusion is the accurate one to believe instead. You have yet to do this! As I just did above,I pointed out a simple question that I expect to have answered if I am to believe that the video prom presented should be considered valid. It is just a basic logical question that anyone should ask when watching it. It seems that I can't find the answer but you must have it to have presented it as the answer. Much of what I present is video proof that should really speak for itself. I point out defining parts that I found pertinent enough to mention at times, but I let the video be the proof and the viewer be the judge otherwise. I give a brief text of what each is so the viewer can know what the video is about and determine whether or not it is of interest to them enough to watch.

Overall, this has been a thread to show how we are being manipulated daily by our media. The evidence is vast. The techniques are obvious if you just start paying attention. Seeing thru present tactics should give you greater ability to guard against other deceitful tricks they may devise in the future. The war in Ukraine will likely be the catalyst for the next world war when it doesn't have to be. We won't be fighting for anyone's freedom, for this pretense will just a placebo to dull your conscience. We will be the invading force into a civil war that is already unjust. This country is not united against Russia, they are divided and only because we promised them bailouts with many strings attached.

But this goes way beyond Ukraine's independence. We are threatening the balance of world powers. We are forcing Putin to react and soon because if he allows us to succeed with the completion of the missile defense system, we can then destroy Russia without fear of them resorting to nuclear warfare. Once we have this advantage in place, do you think we will just sit by and not take further aggressive actions? We will use this advantage of superiority to then threaten all neighbours to weaken Russia through more sanctions and destroy their whole infrastructure as they did to Iraq and others. Eventually China and India would become the next targets. The danger is that these nations can see this occurring too and this is why they have united in trade and formed their own alliances too.

BRICS was an example to the world that that other nations expect to become the big players as the US economy faces it's inevitable doom. The end is close as more nations start trading in other currencies, the US dollar will weaken quicker. But war would prevent the failure of the US dollar for the duration as monetary values are usually fixed by their governments in event of war. And as usual, spoils go to the victors...or at least the leaders of the victors!

By far the greatest threat that man faces today is the inevitability of war. Yet we are distracted with disease, famine, terrorism and other such events. We ignore these major points because our media programs us to. We are told that Russia stands alone and logic shows you that this too is not so. In fact Russia and their allies will span the greater portion of human population. And what happens when China opts to use their nuclear weapons? We don't have a missile defense system there as yet!

The point is it is our side who will likely start this next world war. And it is naive to think all of it will just be fought in Europe this time. Technology has come to far for that to be true and mankind too vicious not to bring it to our doorsteps too.

By now I would think that the majority of the viewers should at least be wondering why I can produce so much evidence in defense of these conclusions I present. You likely already know the answer but I will again state it for those who don't. We all see movies about the perfect crime where there is no evidence which can lead back to the guilty party. The basic argument is that there is always some damning evidence left remaining if the investigators just knew where to look. And this point is the aspect that continues to haunt those who attempt deceit .... they always leave some evidence for the curious to follow. But their cover story usually works on the masses that have better things to do than worry about some dispute across the world. They are confident because they once sold the 9/11 story with thousands of holes in it to a whole world audience.

So the answer is simple....There is a ton of evidence laying around and it grows daily. Our news media doesn't want to ask any questions that interferes with their new owners plans. Their new job is to instead paint a picture that the people will accept. Now RT may be Russian affiliated, but the evidence they show is real and requires no tampering. They just feed it raw and allow logic to works its magic instead. And the problem with disputing visual evidence is why such "Real Evidence" stands up in any court of law over unreliable "Hearsay evidence"!

So now to continue with the game of deceit which envelops Ukraine these days.....

Is the West Faultering?

West Ukraine is becoming disgruntled with their failing economy and the false promises given at the beginning of their uprising.

- thousands protest for higher wages https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FVkraUtCtw

- RT news: Odessa, where the killing started, now has protestors openly siding with Russia and the east. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh8GEkHnWLE

- RT News: thousands of students protest too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bTRL0nLhUk

- Euro News:right sector rally held to protest history of WWII https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6R8wYO3Mxs
This gathering is more likely a cautious warning to the Ukraine government (after they removed their MP) while it allows the fascists to unite and build confidence for their fascist views and stand to maintain the power they were previously promised.

So what has Ukraine Do to Control This Dissension?

- Anti Maidan: now here is the Ukraine army and the National Guard amidst a pro-Kiev demonstration https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOgWVfj5GxY
They chant "death to Russians" and then suggest those who aren't jumping are Russians...intimidating , yes? Then they even state that the east and the west are united... really?? (or is this really propaganda trickery for the dumb?)

- Ukraine Today: 7 killed during a Mariupol funeral https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixrRXZm7iSM
This ought to get the people united against them rebels again! Amazing how it happens when they really need it too.

- Ukraine Today: claims that the rebels want to unite with the Ukraine army to kick the Russians out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmE1p49_wDo
If this were true,what do you think would happen immediately after these Russians were expelled? Would they now all get along? Would they allow them their independence for self rule? Would they allow them to live in peace or just take their resources and watch them starve? Would they at least quit killing them? Tell me what terms the west requires for them to exist peaceably together?....This 3 year deal? http://www.ibtimes.com/ukraine-passes-law-granting-rebels-limited-self-rule-ratifies-eu-association-agreement-1689629 That is a temporary deal and even then, they could abolish it at any time as they are still under Kiev dictatorship. And this is why they are still fighting.

- RT news: Odessa, where the killing started, now has protestors openly siding with Russia and the east. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh8GEkHnWLE

By now I would have thought that you can tell the Ukrainian flag from the other ones. I don't speak neither ukrainian nor russian but the explanation on the video says:

<<<Hundreds of pro-Kiev protesters gathered at Odessa's Shevchenko memorial on Tuesday. Protesters waving Ukrainian and UPA flags, chanted "Glory to the nation. Death to its enemies" and "Every citizen knows who dickhead number one is. Novorossia is gay. Putin is a dick" as they detonated explosives while marching through the east Ukrainian city. >>

Not sure what kind of siding(with russia) is that. 😀

- RT News: thousands of students protest too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bTRL0nLhUk

I liked the first comments on this one:

<<<Ukrainians can't sit on the toilet without yelling glory to ukraine. >>

<<<Lots of hot chix there. Gotta start to cross breed with americans to make the us people a bit prittier>>>

<<<<Dress warm this winter.>>>

😆

- Euro News:right sector rally held to protest history of WWII https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6R8wYO3Mxs
This gathering is more likely a cautious warning to the Ukraine government (after they removed their MP) while it allows the fascists to unite and build confidence for their fascist views and stand to maintain the power they were previously promised.

Wait a minute, I'm confused. Aren't all ukrainians , including the government fascists? At least that was what I got from your previous posts. If they all are then is this a quarrel between fascists? Please explain.

Wait a minute, I'm confused. Aren't all ukrainians , including the government fascists? At least that was what I got from your previous posts. If they all are then is this a quarrel between fascists? Please explain.

Seems once again that maybe I'd better walk you thru it ....

There is alot of growing dissension in Kiev. Seems the folks are not really happy with the way things are playing out so far. Likely because they are all barely making ends meet for a starter. Next those of the west are becoming divided because the right wing neo-nazi's lost their member of parliament and thus no longer have any say in their present government. They are presently demonstrating because they claim theywant some army division from WWII recognized as heroes and not as traitors as their history has presently recorded it due to them conspiring with the Nazis.

Chances are this is a ploy to try to rally their right wing followers together and give a show of strength to the rest of the west. They had acquired a great following during the initial coup-de-tat in February. But their member's extreme actions as a voluntary battalion has likely cost them dearly and I'm betting their testing the waters before they decide to outright challenge the present Ukraine government. At least that is what a smart organization would do anyways...

All the bad publicity from conspiring with these extremists has forced Poroshenko to try to separate themselves from this faction and who can blame them? It's just that this action also weakens the Ukraine army at a time when they can't afford it either. Imposing conscription was another move which seems to cost the west as drafting those who don't wish to fight has it's bad side too. The east never did it and it seems that volunteers fight better when they have no better options available.

History shows that the German people had rallied behind Hitler as their armies smashed their way across Europe.. They didn't protest much until they started to lose on the battlefront. Overextending their reach weakened their home defenses and the enemy started hitting them where it hurt most. The west has been losing the battle with the east for some time now and the loss of the airport has made this failure more evident than ever. West Ukraine too is feeling this pinch as their weakened economy grows ever weaker. Promises of better times ahead are likely starting to look like pipe dreams and I'm betting many of the people are even wishing they hadn't revolted and started all this trouble. (Imagine how much worse their mindsets would be if the east starting attacking instead and they continued to lose while defending).

Now the students too are being careful not to stir the pot too much at present. They are not retaliating outright against their present government, yet they too are showing discontent in the present situation. They are testing the waters and also building up their courage to challenge the new government too. Isn't this how the last coup started? It is how Poroshenko reacts to such threats that can make or break this new government. If he overreacts, he will lose the backing of the people and more trouble will be in the forecast. If he does too little, they will gain courage to protest louder and again he will lose their backing. So what is a leader to do?

Create a distraction of course....you must have something occur to get the people to rally behind again. Caesar did this same thing during the fall of Rome. He had gladiators duke it out against any and everything while their enemy was beating down the gates. But their not quite there yet.... it does seem a perfect timing though when the rebels shell and kill a bunch of folks in Mariupol during a funeral. Will this distract these unruly folks? Stay tuned and we'll see!

Knuckle,

Please take this as a friendly piece of advice because that is how it is intended. The preppers network has been, up until now, a community of folks interested in being prepared for calamity. People post items of interest and concern to get feedback from their online community. This in not how your activity on the forums are recognized. You create and populate entire threads like a zealot on a soapbox. The fact that no one replies or engages you in conversation should tell you that you are not thought to be open to conversation or debate (zealot). It won't take long before this community starts blocking your posts all together. Do you really want to be 'that guy with the sandwich placard' standing in the middle of the sidewalk who is summarily ignored by the sea of humanity??? Stop it, just stop. We all know your opinion. We get it.

Antsy

Bump. 🙂

Knuckle,

Please take this as a friendly piece of advice because that is how it is intended. The preppers network has been, up until now, a community of folks interested in being prepared for calamity. People post items of interest and concern to get feedback from their online community. This in not how your activity on the forums are recognized. You create and populate entire threads like a zealot on a soapbox. The fact that no one replies or engages you in conversation should tell you that you are not thought to be open to conversation or debate (zealot). It won't take long before this community starts blocking your posts all together. Do you really want to be 'that guy with the sandwich placard' standing in the middle of the sidewalk who is summarily ignored by the sea of humanity??? Stop it, just stop. We all know your opinion. We get it.

Antsy

Bump. 🙂

Fair enough, that's 2 figuring that I should stop. But there does seem to be quite a few who read this thread daily to achieve the numbers it presently receives. I assume that many others read it for the reason it saves them the time of surfing thru alot of crap to find the meat of this subject.

I know that if a thread bothered me as this one seems to bother you, I'd just skip it and read others instead. Have you considered this option yet?

I sure don't do this because I like to piss folks off and it does take a fair bit of my time to do this daily. But I'd like to think that my efforts maybe help others to try to see opposing views before they pass judgement (on this and other subjects they partake in daily). If I inform people of what is happening in their world, hopefully they are awakened and then inform others in turn and maybe in enough time, we can make a difference . Many proclaim that they open to objective views, but then immediately refute strong evidence as it is far easier to believe the illogical stories told the media then to have to consider that they've been lied to continually by their own government. It is also logical that many preppers are here at this forum to gain a wide array of such knowledge as they lack faith in their present government because of their bad decision making abilities. If we indeed trusted them, we'd forget about all of this and focus on other things instead.

"You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes."
―Morpheus, to Neo [src]

Knuckle,

Please take this as a friendly piece of advice because that is how it is intended. The preppers network has been, up until now, a community of folks interested in being prepared for calamity. People post items of interest and concern to get feedback from their online community. This in not how your activity on the forums are recognized. You create and populate entire threads like a zealot on a soapbox. The fact that no one replies or engages you in conversation should tell you that you are not thought to be open to conversation or debate (zealot). It won't take long before this community starts blocking your posts all together. Do you really want to be 'that guy with the sandwich placard' standing in the middle of the sidewalk who is summarily ignored by the sea of humanity??? Stop it, just stop. We all know your opinion. We get it.

Antsy

Bump. 🙂

+1

My popularity grows..... 😆 to lighten the mood https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXH2gsKPETE
(note: the Canadians at least weren't fighting....)

- RT News: Putin warns he will reduce gas if Ukraine siphons off the main line running thru https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2TWgjHteeo

- RT News: Germany's Merkel breakfasts with Putin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfe-ZPBzNhw
Germany has been sympathizing with Russia of late and this aught to worry the EU. Germany is the only reason the Euro is still surviving and the sanctions are hurting German economy the most. Germany is a part of NATO, EU and the UN. They are walking the fence on this one and everyone knows it. Losing them to Russia would spell the end of the Euro and be a great loss to the EU and NATO also.

- RT News: the east is gaining sympathy over war crimes committed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-m83wWsrgs
( note the amount of news agencies present by the number of microphones)

- CCTV: women join in the fight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2xR5NShnqs
I'd find it hard to consider that my kids would be in a war next to me. Imagine the distraction that such a thing would be while trying to fight?

- NBC: Cyborg platoon raise a flag in Donetsk airport https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl05fjLMltA
a ballsy move for sure! I'd bet that this would draw alot of attention quick. But those rebels coming to remove it would likely face a booby trap too.

I keep trying to discover what this was about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW2NoL1K0K8
There was a strange fog around Donetsk region. It was too heavy and thick to be an inversion from their chimney smoke. You can see that their are artillery lobbing canisters into the region and so it is very likely they are the cause of this smoke or gas. You can see there is no wind and so the inversion weather keeps the fog low. It is either simply smoke used to hide troop movements or a gas used to immobilize or kill the enemy. It is obvious too they waited for just such weather conditions to commit. The DNR militia had reported equipment buildup in the region earlier.

Still no news has come forth since regarding the Donetsk region and this too is noteworthy. (Seems there is a lockdown on media from this region again as the tap appears to be shut off) If western forces committed to a strategic assault of this region, tensions will be on the rise very soon. A fast strategic win without the use of chemical weapons would build western confidence again. A win is what they need to regain unity of their people but any unjust cruelty against the east could be provocation for Russia to commit also.

- Press TV: Milan talks not going well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMA_vqDDbnY
Putin suggest that the EU countries help fund Ukraine's gas debt. (No mention that Russia is presently supporting almost 1 million refugees or the EU costs of their presently supporting the war in the east). Putin agreed to still sell Ukraine gas but they now have to pay in advance.(that's what happens if you don't pay, isn't it?)

- RT News: Crosstalk debate: covers alot of the reasons behind the instability of Ukraine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt6G1tGYVrU
They mention the point I always wonder on being how would eastern people could ever forgive the atrocities done? It is obvious they no longer trust the west and who could blame them? Just as we all know that Russia isn't giving Crimea back nor would they go back! Russia has won these people and this region, if only because of the actions of the west. Yet the EU continues to force the west into further conflict on a lost front.

- CNN: Obama states that Russian propaganda which suggest that the Ukrainian government is responsible for the problems in eastern Ukraine is a lie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZyaK8b5N4Y
In other words, the east should have just submitted to western occupation and oppression... Obama suggest these people were somehow prepared for western invasion??? Russians therefore caused the Kiev riots too? Maybe you should take another "Blue Pill" cause the last one must be wearing off!

- CNN: Obama states that Putin can't dictate policies of a sovereign country https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxeAiWpdQnk
Seems the pot can indeed call the kettle black (and no, that wasn't a color comment 😕 )

- Ukraine News: Ukraine gets it's gas for the coming winter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynq2v7WOzDk

The gas issue was Putin's hole card. For him to agree to sell them the gas(and ignoring the outstanding debt) show he really doesn't want a conflict. Yet it seems that all sanctions will remain too. NATO remains standing on their doorstep and yet Obama is still spinning stories that Russia is uncompromising. I even wonder about the glass being 1/2 empty or full aspect here too.

The US should really perceive the dividing of Ukraine as quite a victory overall. A country whose economy so strongly affects Russian economy has been taken from Russia's grasp. Yet the EU wants it all, not just half... They also have created reason to place sanctions on much of Russia's imports and further damage their economy while getting to sit back and watch the show. But that still isn't enough! This doesn't resolve the US dollar's inevitable collapse as they need to also destroy the BRIC economy too before it can get a proper footing in world trade. I'd think the US should view their cup far more than 1/2 full by now.

Today being Sunday, I'm gonna give the Ukraine crisis a break... but not your mind!

I've mentioned that I don't watch TV much and I know that this is not the "norm" with most of you. Growing up in the bush has it's goods and bads and it appears that most of us who live here never caught this bug due to CBC finally coming in 1971 or so and never having a 2nd channel until satellite systems arrived in the 80's. So we did other things while the rest of you were glued to your TV routines.

I just came across this link while cruising the web and found it informative (but all bad) on a few points. Now I'm sure that some folks will jump on the conspiracy aspects without absorbing anything. Too bad because there are definite observations here that should make you ponder for a few minutes at least!

Television to Control Your Minds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g7kTD4eP2U

If your the impatient type, just skip to these highlights..
@ time 4:00 to see if you consider this clip "just coincidence" .
@ time 16:00, you can get a glimpse at how TV personalities influence our children

Now I'm not promoting all the aspects in between, just pointing out those that do amaze and especially annoy me. I don't know what kind of parent would influence their children is such a way nor can I imagine how they justify their actions to their own conscience. But I am glad that I did not opt for plopping my kids in front of a TV as substitute babysitter. I am grateful my children do not suffer today from my smoking while in their presence when they were young. Thank God that is all I screwed up on as a parent as they are all healthy and hard working individuals today.

I present the above as a reminder of the dangers of television and it's influence that it has upon us. The internet is also as dangerous and parental guidance software should restrict young minds from viewing that which they cannot fully understand until carefully taught in an understandable fashion to instill decent morals.

I don't know if the Illuminati exist and don't waste must thought regarding such literature. I do know that music and TV have a great influence on how we perceive things in general. Did you catch the mention that we only have to hear a message 5 times to accept it as rational thought? This is an argument amongst many researchers with answers from 3-20 according to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_frequency and others. This explains why advertising works but it also shows that we are indeed susceptible to such influence changing our perceptions on any given topic...or brain washing!

Just another reminder to be aware of the influence of the Media!