I agree with all of this 🙂

Thanks for the post LeroyRod. This is a good link and there is a lot of reading there. It is hard to argue against the posibilites that are suggested. Don't be shy about making posts. You will find that the Onatraio furum is the by far the most active and people from around the globe also contibute to it.

Another article on the same site; flashpoints brewing around the world is also worth reading.

I think that anyone who is likely to search out information is likely to feel the same way as you do Leroy. The quality of the information is of course important.

I'm assuming you're Canadian.

I think our neighbours are in big trouble and in retrospect considering the amount of American investment in Canadian industry we would certainly feel a negative impact. Apart from that I think we're situated in perhaps one of the best economic conditions we can be in. Are we "globalized"? You bet. Apart from foreign imports (food products especially) we depend on each day we have the highest percentage of foreign investment of almost any other nation. We are at about 64% and probably about 54% of that foreign investment is American, when the global standard of other G20 nations is about 14 - 20%. Doesn't make a lot of sense when you consider we are a G8 nation and for all our frugality and conservatism - a rich one.

I'm not an economist, but all I can say for that optomistically is that at least we have our eggs in a lot of different baskets. Maybe that's the best you can hope for in a global economy that's suffering. We're also resource rich - that supercedes our industrial strengths. In my books; that's also a big plus. It's really a very dark subject with few bright spots.

My real concern is that our neighbours aren't going to give up the reigns easily, or for long, even if their economy fails. Perhaps in some respects their failed economy would bolster their resolve, determination and need to step up and defend their way of life. The second world war and ramping up their industry is what make them the world's superpower. That's a concern. History is a lesson. Like the last war, there was a ready and needy mass of men willing to go to war. The depression not only supplied a cheap labour force to increase industry and commerce it actually fuelled enlistment. We all hear about "going off for honour and country" but most Canadians and Americans enlisted for the pay cheque to send back to their families and three squares a day.

A global economic collapse would probably result in a replay of exactly what we saw start in the roaring twenties and culminate until the end of the last war. Prosperity to desperation to war to prosperity. I hope i'm wrong, but like I said in an earlier thread I no longer have faith that I am wrong.

thanks ICRCC. I haven't posted that much here, and didn't want to post unnecessarily in the wrong forum. Good to know that this is an active forum.

thanks Rogue for your post too. Yup, I'm Canadian from Toronto.

So do you guys agree, that in the event of even a minor collapse, a much larger and likely total collapse would ensue? Simply due to the fact that economies now are so intricately connected. The basis of the article is saying that because all of the systems are so intricately connected, from power to food to finance and that none have any type of credible redundancy, total systemic collapse is pretty much impossible to avoid.

In that scenario, does staying in a city make sense? ie. is it even worth prepping for a few months or a year? I guess it still makes sense just in case it is short term, but I think a short term crisis is unlikely to remain short term at this stage. I feel like the best bet would be to head to the least populated areas, at least 5 or 6 hours north. But maybe I should start another thread for this part of the discussion.

I started this thread really to just get an idea of what people are thinking about a systemic collapse being triggered by what's going on in Europe. Particularly Spain. I have no investments as I'm pretty poor, but I never would have guessed a few years ago that I'd be checking the bond prices of European countries on almost a daily basis.

Well Leroy like I said I think perhaps we are somewhat well positioned but that doesn't mean we wouldn't be drastically affected.

If history is a lesson and the great depression is the teacher you would probably fare well in the city. I think we watch too many American movies and read far too much from radical bloggers. Hey, for the most part American inner cities and Canadian inner cities arent' comparable. There will always be those in any city that will resort to violence or threat to more easily obtain what they think they can get. I think in Canada they are an exception to the rule. I also, from my experience, don't find Canadians as compacient at turning a blind eye to that as our neighbours seem to (at least on the tube.) I must say I've had experiences in the States where I have intervened in situations that everyone else was willing to walk by. Perhaps that is stupid and naive of me because I am Canadian but I've always made it home again. I've also kissed the tarmac at Pierson a couple of times when I came home from the Caribean as well.

Historically, Canadian cities and Canadians all over this country pulled together, pooled their resources and formed strong systems of welfare to help eachother out. Sure their wasn't work, but the soup kitchens were open. Long lines but cooperative living even in the most desperate conditions. The lines during the war for rationed goods was also long and desperate but our society pulled together for the most parts peacefully and again worked together.

Many people in the cities went back to the family farms when industry failed and unfortunately that isn't an option today as so many have left those farms to permanently position themselves in city life. There are no guarantees. Nor for all the hype, do the experts have crystal balls.

That's why it's kind of important to always consider all your options and try the best you can to prepare the best you can.

Interesting thoughts Leroy...I believe our greatest danger is an economic collapse and then leading into another world war.

This is the sole reason I prep but I don't think I will ever truly be ready for this, but a little bit ready is far better than not ready at all 😐

I think the main difference between Americans and Canadians is this. The US psyche is based on the individual... the fight for freedom and against whatever may be against that. In the early years of the US it was the "frontier" and Indians that stood in the way. Later on it was still the battle of the individual to attain the American Dream. In contrast to that Canadians have always had a more community minded approach and tended to work with each other and not against one another. Hence the somewhat welfare state we have today. Sadly we have tipped too far that way but even so it demonstrates a large part of who and what we are as a society.

I'm not an alarmist, more so just a blunt realist that works with the facts at hand. Europe is a Titanic, and Greece was the Iceberg. One by one the Countries of the Europe Economic Union, are going down. Like the ship, 3 compartments (countries) could flounder, and it would stay afloat. But the designers and the builders of both made some fatal mistakes in design and material. The silent designers of the EU, were the Bilderberg group, who are also the main operators of the World Monetary Fund, and also the US Federal Reserve owners. (Please don’t take my word for it. Research it yourself.). Are they the New World Order, the Illuminati, the apex of the Masons, Or maybe all three. Its easy to be bound up into the conspiracy web, but as one man once said, “Truth, when presented as a lie, is the Greatest media shield to hide behind”.JT 😈

hey Ranger, thanks for your post. I haven't done too much research into the Bilderbergs, NWO, Illuiminati etc. but I have seen a few interesting documentaries and am a somewhat regular listener to Coast to Coast. I like your analogy of the titanic. I forget where I read a similar analogy on the US banking system. The original idea was like you say to have various bulkheads that could contain leaks. But through instead of adding more bulkheads or trying to strengthen the existing ones, deregulation has actually removed bulkheads. Which means that now even a minor leak can affect the entire ship.

I agree though the ship is sinking. Spain is now a major development. The tipping point for all of the other countries has been when the interest rate on their bonds moved above 7%. Each time this happened, with Ireland, Portugal and Greece, the Troika would begin to buy bonds in attempt to quell fears of foreign investors so that they would not require such a high interest rate to buy the bonds of the country in question. Each time this happened the opposite happened. Foreign investors saw intervention of the Troika as a sure sign the country was in serious trouble and demanded even higher interest rates. The interest rate on Spanish 10 year bonds has been falling for the past week after nudging as high as 6.9%. Though the interest rate has already been above 7% twice in the past few months. It's like being in an abusive relationship. The Troika and the mainstream media keep telling us, "Don't worry, this time it will be different".

The crisis was bad enough when Greece was in the spotlight. Spain however is the 4th largest economy in the EU. With an economy bigger than Ireland, Portugal and Greece...combined. Italy's bonds have been tracking Spain's but are behind by about 1%. Italy is the number 3 economy in the EU. I am no economist, I can barely manage my own finances and I have no investments! But even I can see this is situation without any credible solution.

Once Spain formally requests a bail out, global credit will begin to freeze up. A number of scenarios can play out from there, governments begin printing money which either leads to massive inflation or deflation. And then the real collapse begins.

Underlying all of this is the worst US drought in decades.

eesh.

I wonder if the fact that George Soros is getting rid of all his major stocks and buying $130 million in gold is setting off any alarm bells for anyone.

Good point tazweiss. He also apparently is getting out of the largest US banks as well...

"The bilionaire also cashed out of his positions at J.P. Morgan, Goldman Sachs and Citigroup banks but kept his stake in SunTrust Banks."
http://rt.com/business/news/billionaire-soros-gold-844/

The scariest scenerio is probably the most likely... If the collapse is sudden, and you are prepared ahead of time, you're in pretty good shape! Sure, you'll need to worry about looters and survival and all, we've all imagined that situation otherwise we wouldn't be here.

But imagine the collapse isn't sudden. Imagine the economy slowly winds down over months.. hell, years. First, those who are living pay check to pay check will fall.. they'll become homeless as jobs become scarce.. then those with mortgages will fall. I think most of us are in that boat. As the economy starts to flounder, housing will drop, meaning those of use with little paid off on our mortgages will fall. Imagine your house that you paid $400,000 for is now only worth $150,000.. the economy is still running at this point. The banks want their money, and not the $150,000 that your house is worth.

Slowly, a few at a time, then larger bunches, will lose everything, and the government and the banks will take everthing you have to cover your debts.

Tent cities will start to form... looting. Large refugee camps will be made to maintain order and to shield the rest of the population from these poor people.

In comes down to this. All the preparation in the world won't save us when the banks come to repossess everything we have and they have the government behind them. We'll all be in camps long before the government finally falls.

How do we prepare for this?

Here is some news that is worth consideration. After World War II the new German constitution ruled that soldiers could not be deployed with guns at the ready on German soil. Today that changed. The German Federal Constitutional Court ruled that military will in future be able to use its weapons on German streets in an extreme situation. The court says troops could be used to tackle an assault that threatens scores of casualties.

Germany has probably the most robust economy in Europe, it seems odd that they would make this change at this time. They are following similar moves that have been made by other countries, notably the US over the last twelve months. Perhaps they are preparing too. The question is for what?

Soros is worth about 20 billion. This is more of a hedge play for him than admitting things are getting bad.

As far as the current economy it is bad and slow. Canadians owe $1.50 for every dollar earned. We are far past the debt load America was in before their crisis. UK has enormous debt which is a higher debt to GDP than Greece, Portugal etc etc. It just depends who's money is a stake as to which country falls next.