My view is rather pessimistic. Introducing refugees (different from regular immigrants) to an SHTF scenario just adds a lot of instability. IMHO they will respond to an emergency by going back to their "baseline training" (speaking own language(s), going back to old habits, being driven by old values, doing whatever they did during the previous SHTF situation they lived) etc. Because when humans are under stress we don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training (quote by Archilochus).

So you will have a much larger group of "Canadians" (whatever their origins are, but people who have been part of a Canadian society for decades with their set behaviors and values) co-existing with smaller groups of refugees behaving and responding very differently, doing things that may be shocking to us (and vice-versa - just because refugees will do whatever they feel is the best to survive and protect themselves, and they learned very different lessons). Mutual fear and mistrust come to mind. Obviously, I wouldn't like to be a refugee's at a time like this. There will also be resentment from Canadians if scarce resources are provided to refugees during a national or global crisis.

Just my 2 cents. I actually support a well-managed refugee program in Canada - but the reality in an SHTF would be very hard.

My view is rather pessimistic. Introducing refugees (different from regular immigrants) to an SHTF scenario just adds a lot of instability. IMHO they will respond to an emergency by going back to their "baseline training" (speaking own language(s), going back to old habits, being driven by old values, doing whatever they did during the previous SHTF situation they lived) etc. Because when humans are under stress we don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training (quote by Archilochus).

So you will have a much larger group of "Canadians" (whatever their origins are, but people who have been part of a Canadian society for decades with their set behaviors and values) co-existing with smaller groups of refugees behaving and responding very differently, doing things that may be shocking to us (and vice-versa - just because refugees will do whatever they feel is the best to survive and protect themselves, and they learned very different lessons). Mutual fear and mistrust come to mind. Obviously, I wouldn't like to be a refugee's at a time like this. There will also be resentment from Canadians if scarce resources are provided to refugees during a national or global crisis.

Just my 2 cents. I actually support a well-managed refugee program in Canada - but the reality in an SHTF would be very hard.

I think its a mixed bag of nuts. some will pose a greater threat then local dude, others can be an asset to you, as they have better skillets in a SHTF situation. I know a few who would be a great resource for wiring up and fixing stuff. would i want them in my area? some yes, some no. there are second or more generation whites in my area, that i just know will be an issue. Males in big trucks and with little brains, police cars outside residence on regular basis... obvious future source of trouble. Safe to say, we all know the visible ones, its also the others that will pop up. So will some people shine in a positive manner during a crisis.

Like everything. Caution, skepticism, vigilance, eyes and ears wide open, situational awareness... must always be your MO.

will leave personal viewpoints out of this.

I’ll preface this with this: call me what you want, I judge people
Based on individual merits but I judge a culture on its history and reputation”.

Csis confirms a minimum of 60 trained IS terrorists have entered Canada.
30 000 files on illegals have gone missing
Sanctuary cities across North America have seen crime spikes.
And just to be clear, read the Ontario Islamic party’s introduction. Then feel free to tell me how well they plan to assimilate into our trusting and open culture.
https://www.islamicontario.ca/Islamic-Party-of-Ontario-Principles-and-Policy_324.html

Considering this is a preppers network, I find it questionable that anyone is denying the risks associated with a short term drastic change in population demographics. Never in history has it ended well or without bloodshed.

I’ll preface this with this: call me what you want, I judge people
Based on individual merits but I judge a culture on its history and reputation”.

Csis confirms a minimum of 60 trained IS terrorists have entered Canada.
30 000 files on illegals have gone missing
Sanctuary cities across North America have seen crime spikes.
And just to be clear, read the Ontario Islamic party’s introduction. Then feel free to tell me how well they plan to assimilate into our trusting and open culture.
https://www.islamicontario.ca/Islamic-Party-of-Ontario-Principles-and-Policy_324.html

Considering this is a preppers network, I find it questionable that anyone is denying the risks associated with a short term drastic change in population demographics. Never in history has it ended well or without bloodshed.

Nagol. being very familiar with these types of nasty folks, your stats and references to sanctuary cities etc is in my opinion accurate. as anyone interested in prepping for trouble ( in all manner of degrees and the sources or forms from which the stuff happens or manifests itself) one needs to be aware of their environment. live in a high trouble area, one will sure as heck have concerns. Sure as hell hope i am not anywhere near Toronto!

I am extremely far from being PC so let no one misunderstand my desire to remain analytical in what we are faced with and my personal political views ( not expressed here). What our government needs to do is entirely a different topic and i don't think this is the place to spend time on the topic. hell of an important topic, this just isn't the place ( my humble opinion).

if we look at types of crime occurring in ones neighborhood or from the groups it may originate ( white punks, black, brown, yellow, pink...) then that is important. Understanding the risk these groups pose is key to ones plans. This both in immediate and long term and most ertainly on the immediate side of things.

Having organized gangs or other miscreants living near you from the start of a crisis, will only accelerate the severity of a situation. Simple logic and not racial at all. Living next door to poverty palace with gang bangers is, and i am going out on a limb here /sarc. Likely more risky then living in a community of doctors, lawyers and leaders of the business community / those who "contribute" to political parties or surrounded by well off seniors residences. Why? well, police will focus on protecting the wealthy. always have been and normal. people know where the pay cheque comes from/ basic prepping concepts. As preppers, we know where our heat and food will come from, the protective services know where their paycheck comes from and those in charge of issuing the cheques will sure as hell make sure their neighborhood is protected over someone else's. this is not an affront to LEA but simple historical fact. Power dictates placement and use of resources. yes some n the LEA will care about the schleps of the world like me and i will be grateful for any extended hand offered but i also know the majority of the resources will be directed to others.

immediate goal is survival. long term vision to prosperity and peace is political and that means what it means to each of us.

as i have stated in a prior post, some of these folks have skill sets that very few of us have and are very valuable to one looking to cobble together things. recommend seeking out ALL good people and learning who one can work with in the future or even now. Now being good time to test and see if "fit" will work. trust but verify!

I’ll preface this with this: call me what you want, I judge people
Based on individual merits but I judge a culture on its history and reputation”.

Yes, it's human nature to have an experience with any group of people and not miss its meaning. Regardless of how open-minded we try to be, pre-conceived ideas are kept.

Dress like a Hippie in the day and see how you're treated. Be black and drive an expensive car (or run from a parked one). What is the police reaction? Believe it or not, people are often conditioned to react how they do. Sometimes there's a good reason for it...

One only has to look at the problems that some returning soldiers (PTSD) from the Vietnam War caused. It's noteworthy that these soldiers were returning to their own country and were familiar with the culture of their birth. Society took on much more than it had bargained for. The same may be true of refugees from any war zone returning to any country (especially when it's not theirs).

The people who don't get it often have lived a protected life and haven't faced the music. The world is not as safe as it is in Canada. What makes people think that how people act in their own country to survive, will not be continued here?

Csis confirms a minimum of 60 trained IS terrorists have entered Canada.
30 000 files on illegals have gone missing
Sanctuary cities across North America have seen crime spikes.
And just to be clear, read the Ontario Islamic party’s introduction. Then feel free to tell me how well they plan to assimilate into our trusting and open culture.
https://www.islamicontario.ca/Islamic-Party-of-Ontario-Principles-and-Policy_324.html

Considering this is a preppers network, I find it questionable that anyone is denying the risks associated with a short term drastic change in population demographics. Never in history has it ended well or without bloodshed

Large numbers of refugees have gone missing in Europe and people are not either informed, or simply don't care. Refugee threat has been generally disregarded by the majority of readers here. So there's little to be discussed...

...police will focus on protecting the wealthy. always have been and normal. people know where the pay cheque comes from/ basic prepping concepts. As preppers, we know where our heat and food will come from, the protective services know where their paycheck comes from and those in charge of issuing the cheques will sure as hell make sure their neighborhood is protected over someone else's. this is not an affront to LEA but simple historical fact. Power dictates placement and use of resources. yes some n the LEA will care about the schleps of the world like me and i will be grateful for any extended hand offered but i also know the majority of the resources will be directed to others.

Clarence, I believe that this statement is completely unfounded. Police wouldn't protect the rich over their own families (they don't commonly reside in wealthy neighbourhoods). The focus is on maintaining critical infrastructure and emergency services and to respond to individual emergencies. At least this is what happened during the Mississauga train disaster (the largest evacuation before the New Orleans incident). I was with Port Credit OPP at the time and was directly involved.

You've made a definitive statement here. Do you have any references to support it?

Csis confirms a minimum of 60 trained IS terrorists have entered Canada.
30 000 files on illegals have gone missing

Sources?

Csis confirms a minimum of 60 trained IS terrorists have entered Canada.
30 000 files on illegals have gone missing

Sources?

Csis confirms a minimum of 60 trained IS terrorists have entered Canada.
30 000 files on illegals have gone missing

Sources?

Denob. Not sure of his sources, could be public or otherwise. Asking a person for sources is not going to help with discussion. If discussing stats on tomatoe plant seed success, I would say sure.
Without any hesitation, I believe his 60 is extremely reasonable. Oh and let’s not forget the home grown nut jobs.

Dangerous to over play this issue but it is “Extremely”dangerous to underplay it.!!!!!

There is a ton of details that I am “guessing” are being under reported.. this is sadly normal and all due to politics. During and even after and to this very day, Did canada offer sources of information on German u boats in the st Lawrence and even Lake Ontario! Ah no. Did they exist, ah yes they did!

There were many terrorist incidents In Europe over the holidays, yet I cannot remember seeing a single one being mentioned on our Canuck news outlets. Do the incidents Occur? Yes. Unless you follow this stuff, it’s near impossible to get the “source” material. Why? Because it’s under reported. A terrorist mowing down five people yelling allah nut bar is being reported as a mental health issue, so finding honest stats or sources is impossible. And it is designed this way!

For those who get all nervous ninny over exact numbers of nut bar terrorists getting into canada. Not the fact they are, which is a valid concern but the PC fear of saying so. Think of how heroin and other drugs get into the country. Now any idiot knows it does indeed happen, so why couldn’t 60 nut bars get in? How many people get caught on Mexican border? How many don’t get caught? How many illegal immigrants are showing upon quebec border? These are self reporting folks walking up to rcmp. How many prance in a few hundred miles away, get brought in via Indian reserves along the border? How many drugs, weapons are smuggled across our Indian reserves? Boy of boy is that ever a dead topic! Used to hear about cigarette smuggling but indians closed a bridge in montreal and now it’s silent. They did a little investigation on cigarette stubs thrown on the ground outside revenue canada headqurters in ottawa and that revealed most were contraband cigarettes! End of that report LOL

As this isn’t a political site, we should stay clear of the general topic. How political decisions do impact preppers is another thing and it must be discussed in calm manner. Example. You have the risk of a nut bar blowing up a city water filtration plant. That is an issue to factor into your preps. If you have nut bars willing to blow up vehicles, that is a preppers problem to overcome/ need to find way out of city jammed with traffic or travel restrictions. So if one lives in a rural area and there are few to no jihad nutbars living there. A VBIED is low on risk level. However. High concentration of nutbars in a city next to me is an issue, it may affect a power or water filtration plant attack and result in an exodus out of the city onto my land. Lord knows the authorities have no desire or capability to keep within the crappy city core. Au contraire, they will be glad to see people leave!

As preppers and especially those living in or near cities, we need to be cognizant of the threat or rather the risk of these folks and others. This, in addition to the issue no one wishes to discuss and that is of their supporters or sympathizers!!! Police... will have a bugger of a time catching some of these folks because they are and will be hidden by their sympathizers. I have been told it is a serious issue in some US cities and will be near impossible to handle. That is why and this is public knowledge, that interment camps for certain groups have been discussed! Ugly stuff for some to admit to, but most certainly a viable tool.

All the reports we read mention this person or that, but they never touch on their family and friends ! The parents, siblings and friends claim to never having a clue, that little nut bar was acting strange or doing something. Give it a rest! There exists in this community a very sympathetic group of supporters. They may not assist in the actual building of a bomb or execution of the event, but rest assured, a lot more then the one perp is aware of what is occurring. If not in fine detail, then in a pretty good hunch and with the turning of a blind eye.

A cocaine dealer has a family and friends and if little white guy named Johnny shows up with a 150k sports car and is partying.... then his white Anglo Saxon family and friends know something is up. Not all mind you, but a blind choice to ignore the obvious is still an acknowledgement of the activity or change in a person. A lot of wink wink, nudge nudge goes on and it cannot be ignored. Hey why not, gov won’t take care of us, business people get away with it etc etc. Any excuse is used to justify turning a blind eye to the obvious. Nothing new and done in the past with IRA, Italians, orangemen, radical left and every culture and for every real or perceived grievance.....

So if there is ten or heaven forbid, sixty bad guys, you likely have at least forty to one thousand others who are aware of buddy and will aid in sheltering him or her ! THAT is an issue to those needing to factor in ANY trouble group or individuals. If I have three morons near me, I have their family and likeminded moron friends. So I will likely need to not only deal with the three morons, but their support network of losers and family members.

We see this in France.... buddy drives into people and no one knows anything. Or suddenly the police are able to arrest thirty other “knowns”. No kidding! They were always there but guess what? They were not on any publicly available “source” list. There’s even more then that but again, due to politics, they like to not go arresting the whole family. It’s a joke and a deadly one at that.

So is it possible there are sixty foreigners on a watch list? Ah ya. Can we have thousands in canada that could pose a direct or indirect threat, ah ya.

And for anyone who gets the sweats over picking on one group, this applies to any group, nationality, colour etc. The three morons near me I mention, are all white low life’s.

So let’s be PC and just mention nut jobs or criminals and we can focus on what they may mean to a prepper and their plans. People get all PC nervous over these things, and all I care about on this site is learning about options I have or events, I need to factor into my plans. Power outage is a power outage. Is it due to a hack or a bomb. Will Swedish knitting guild blow it up or perhaps a group with a well known grudge? Guess who I would put money on.

I’ll preface this with this: call me what you want, I judge people
Based on individual merits but I judge a culture on its history and reputation”.

Yes, it's human nature to have an experience with any group of people and not miss its meaning. Regardless of how open-minded we try to be, pre-conceived ideas are kept.

Dress like a Hippie in the day and see how you're treated. Be black and drive an expensive car (or run from a parked one). What is the police reaction? Believe it or not, people are often conditioned to react how they do. Sometimes there's a good reason for it...

One only has to look at the problems that some returning soldiers (PTSD) from the Vietnam War caused. It's noteworthy that these soldiers were returning to their own country and were familiar with the culture of their birth. Society took on much more than it had bargained for. The same may be true of refugees from any war zone returning to any country (especially when it's not theirs).

The people who don't get it often have lived a protected life and haven't faced the music. The world is not as safe as it is in Canada. What makes people think that how people act in their own country to survive, will not be continued here?

Csis confirms a minimum of 60 trained IS terrorists have entered Canada.
30 000 files on illegals have gone missing
Sanctuary cities across North America have seen crime spikes.
And just to be clear, read the Ontario Islamic party’s introduction. Then feel free to tell me how well they plan to assimilate into our trusting and open culture.
https://www.islamicontario.ca/Islamic-Party-of-Ontario-Principles-and-Policy_324.html

Considering this is a preppers network, I find it questionable that anyone is denying the risks associated with a short term drastic change in population demographics. Never in history has it ended well or without bloodshed

Large numbers of refugees have gone missing in Europe and people are not either informed, or simply don't care. Refugee threat has been generally disregarded by the majority of readers here. So there's little to be discussed...

...police will focus on protecting the wealthy. always have been and normal. people know where the pay cheque comes from/ basic prepping concepts. As preppers, we know where our heat and food will come from, the protective services know where their paycheck comes from and those in charge of issuing the cheques will sure as hell make sure their neighborhood is protected over someone else's. this is not an affront to LEA but simple historical fact. Power dictates placement and use of resources. yes some n the LEA will care about the schleps of the world like me and i will be grateful for any extended hand offered but i also know the majority of the resources will be directed to others.

Clarence, I believe that this statement is completely unfounded. Police wouldn't protect the rich over their own families (they don't commonly reside in wealthy neighbourhoods). The focus is on maintaining critical infrastructure and emergency services and to respond to individual emergencies. At least this is what happened during the Mississauga train disaster (the largest evacuation before the New Orleans incident). I was with Port Credit OPP at the time and was directly involved.

You've made a definitive statement here. Do you have any references to support it?

Wayne. As you have stated, police and I know you were one and have a personal love for your old profession and partner. Will protect people etc. And yes they will protect infrastructure. Police have families and will also protect their neighbourhoods. This will be done by on duty and off duty serving or past members.
Police will and are directed by their bosses to protect certain areas. Bosses are almost always politically appointed. Some care more about promotion opportunities then in doing what’s right. You mention a train derailment and that has zero bearing on the issue of who would receive the brunt of protection during a massive civil unrest issue.

If in Toronto, you had shear chaos in the streets, the police as we have seen time and time again, WILL NOT protect shops, office towers or apartments in a trouble area. They form a shield and retreat and leave the rioters to do their thing. This on a NORMAL day and with only a few hundred protestors breaking things. Again, this is not some little isolated event in a peaceful” area.

I know for a fact that the OPP officers were directed to not intervene in protecting CANADIAN citizens during the native protests in Caledonia. Sickening political and ultimately a police failure to protect people and property of an average citizen. Officers were sickened at being told to not help! Police should have told their superiors to go pound sand and done the right thing but they didn’t. Yes they have to follow orders, I got that. But this is exactly what would occur in a large scale event. They would and this is natural, go and protect infrastructure like city hall, transportation stations, fuel... and YES, they would be gaureenteed to protect high value neighbourhoods consisting of political leaders, top business people etc. Yes, if one is lucky to live in a neighbourhood with many police families, they would benefit by the blue shield. All normal and I know I would do my best to protect my family if I were a police officer, BUT that does not change the logical fact that between protecting me and a high value individual in a high value neighbourhood, the police will be directed to protect them and not my family.

Shear logic and simple logistical factors or made up factors. In ottawa, you wil! Have all the embassy and top government officials in rockcliff receiving police protection over some poorer neighbourhood. Same effortswill be made to protect them as is made in restoring power to high population areas. It’s like medical care. Please don’t tell me that the prime ministers or a cabinet minister, or a leader in business, the arts........wife doesn’t get more snap to attention care then your neighbours wife. Of course they do and so will they in a major crisis. Again, this is clearly seen al, the time. You are proud of your efforts and those of other good officers. No one and cert not me are disputing that or putting anyone down. It’s just simple ugly human and political nature that during any civil unrest, the priority shifts to key infrastructure and sadly to those at the top or those who have pull and friends in high places.

Some police may say screw this and not report in for duty and instead decide to stay home. This was seen occurring in New Orleans. Can’t say I blame the officers either. Between my family and risking my life over protecting looting, I would likely stay and protect my family. Your statement helps make my case! for those who do show up, they will in fact be directed to protecting other “family’s” The military will cordon off areas and by sure and coincidental happenstance, it will include places like rockcliff etc. If there ever was any post mortem on response, an excuse of proximity to critical resources would be given etc. One way or another, top connected people,will receive more protection then lower echelon folks and it will be by military and police forces.

As always, I am trying to be very honest, base my statement on fact and incidents...that I have seen. Some of which is open media reports and ....

I will have your six and am sure you would mine bit there will be a difference in level of protection of top and lower schelon groups and to deny so is to deny history and human nature.

I'll throw in my $0.02.

The original question being "Immigration - Increased or Decreased Security Risk" my answer is that it could possibly increase a security risk. I do think the reasoning presented thus far is flawed when considering SHTF. Allow me to explain. By and large, refugees - immigrants - find residence in larger population centres which tends to offer more resources to them; often a larger cultural or community group from their origins. In the event of a SHTF situation, the potential for an increased concern on their part is dwarfed by the fact that, from a prepper standpoint, being in a city is frankly incompatible with surviving a large scale disaster. Everyone there is a couple meals away from starving, especially once there won't be fuel for their UberEats and SkipTheDishes to deliver them food. So it will be chaos. Gridlocks, empty shelves in stores, no power, no water, no sanitation... Immigrants helping/hindering the matter is irrelevant.

Will police protect theirs and the riches? I don't care, there wouldn't be enough law enforcement officers and soldiers to keep peace in a large scale event anyway. So that is just red herring discussion.

So a few immigrants banding together and going full tribal warfare (assuming this happens) will be just a drop in the ocean of crap that would ensue in a city like Toronto or Vancouver after (name the disaster of your fantasy here) happens.

Now, if immigration is a concern to you, consider moving to a small town in Saskatchewan or Alberta. Whether it's Hanna AB or Assiniboia SK, the only immigrants you'll find there is the 1 Chinese family (asian...) which has been running the town's western-Chinese restaurant for generations. They're part of the community and give them a generator and they would probably cook for the entire town in the event of a power outage.

Stay out of cities with populations involving more than 5 digits (4 would be better) and you'll be way better off in a SHTF event, regardless of Canada's immigration policies!

Now let's stop bashing Syrian refugees, the poor buggers went through enough. 20 years ago, we could have all been worried about Kosovars, Bosnians and or former Yougoslavians who went through serious atrocities and adversity and yet, I don't think there's been any uptick in issues arising from their stay in Canada.

Clarence, if you are referring to the Grand River Land Dispute, you're right. In this case the number of OPP officers were overwhelmed by hundreds of native men, The police called for support including a tactical team (which killed one protester). The Federal and Provincial Governments became involved and there were mistakes made.

The OPP did not protect rich people over poor ones (nor have they ever done so to my knowledge). You seem cynical. Perhaps you have your reasons, I don't know. Suffice it to say that I disagree with you on this point.

Clarence, if you are referring to the Grand River Land Dispute, you're right. In this case the number of OPP officers were overwhelmed by hundreds of native men, The police called for support including a tactical team (which killed one protester). The Federal and Provincial Governments became involved and there were mistakes made.

The OPP did not protect rich people over poor ones (nor have they ever done so to my knowledge). You seem cynical. Perhaps you have your reasons, I don't know. Suffice it to say that I disagree with you on this point.

Wayne,

You have a serious mix up on your "facts". You are blending the Ipperwash and Caledonia land disputes together. While they have a political tie in, they are two very separate incidents. For the record, the TRU team member killed the unarmed protester years earlier at the Ipperwash dispute.

Clarence,
Gotta call bs on this. Uboats in Lake Ontario?

There is a ton of details that I am “guessing” are being under reported.. this is sadly normal and all due to politics. During and even after and to this very day, Did canada offer sources of information on German u boats in the st Lawrence and even Lake Ontario! Ah no. Did they exist, ah yes they did!

...You are blending the Ipperwash and Caledonia land disputes together. While they have a political tie in, they are two very separate incidents...

Thanks scrounger, your correct. They were two separate incidents. My point mainly was that everyone (rich or poor) were protected (or not protected) on an equal basis. When you have to deal with Federal land agreements, you're in political territory. I can appreciate why this is a delicate area, but there were mistakes made in both scenarios. Hopefully the lessons learned can not be made again.

At times, the chosen police action isn't appropriate and is often directed by decision makers above the rank and file. I choose not to blame the police department or the military in how they're ordered to deploy. The personal wealth of individuals has never been a factor in my experience.

Clarence,
Gotta call bs on this. Uboats in Lake Ontario?

There is a ton of details that I am “guessing” are being under reported.. this is sadly normal and all due to politics. During and even after and to this very day, Did canada offer sources of information on German u boats in the st Lawrence and even Lake Ontario! Ah no. Did they exist, ah yes they did!

Here you go scrounger https://outdoors360.com/nazi-submarine-discovered-great-lakes-true-story1/

One thing I was taught by a top pro in intelligence field is to take in all the info you can gather and then start trying to figure out the truth. Is this story true, maybe yes, maybe no. Point being, anyone Involved in any intel type works knows that the gov lies and conceals details from public. That is why secrecy oaths are in place. Some issues are obviously national security while others are to avoid embarrassment. If you told the public in 1943...there was a German sub in the st Lawrence, you would be laughted at or create panic. Gov would use every tool in their power to destroy you. Hell, one could end up in the royal victoria hospital in montreal and subjected to all manner of experiments. Remember the CIA getting caught in experimenting on vagrants in montreal? Of course, you would be called a traitor or communist if you dared say that in the 50,60 and even the 70’s. Love to have someone explain World Trade Center 7 collapse.

Could a uboat have gotten up the lifts? I see no reason why not. All it takes is some bribery, planning and luck. All of which we all know works really well! Did it really occur? Did World Trade Center #7 collapse / pancake down like a controlled explosion due to a a few piddly and isolated fires? Maybe yes, maybe no.
If a few piddly fires is valid, then Christ on a cracker, there are a ton of buildings in danger and yet no one is concerned. Weird that no other buildings of that vintage in North America collapse from a few piddly fires!

The krauts had jet fighters, their stealth bomber that was getting close to production resembles our stealth bomber 70 years later. Funny that we only heard about what the Germans had decades later. Wonder why, surely it can’t be we were embarrassed and puts holes into our claimed superiority. Colour film was kept secret and public didn’t even have colour TV till the 70’s we were still watching BW movies in the theatres in the sixties, why not colour ? Simple, it was secret and like so much, would reveal possible knowledge of our enemies capabilities decades earlier. I had a friend who wrote a book about the prince of Wales being hit by Bismarck ( he was on the bridge when it took the hit from Bismarck) and he was denied permission to post a previously public picture of conning tower because and I am guessing, the radio arrangements! So some person 70 years later in the gov still censored a little photo on a WW2 conning tower!

So maybe it’s accurate or not. Knowing some of the lies we are fed, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least.

Again, from a preppers perspective, one would be wise to keep an open mind and not pay to much heed to what we are told. Sad, we can’t beleive our governments but history tells us we can’t. Does it mean we can’t believe any of it or follow order? No it doesn’t, just that we need to stay awake

...You are blending the Ipperwash and Caledonia land disputes together. While they have a political tie in, they are two very separate incidents...

Thanks scrounger, your correct. They were two separate incidents. My point mainly was that everyone (rich or poor) were protected (or not protected) on an equal basis. When you have to deal with Federal land agreements, you're in political territory. I can appreciate why this is a delicate area, but there were mistakes made in both scenarios. Hopefully the lessons learned can not be made again.

At times, the chosen police action isn't appropriate and is often directed by decision makers above the rank and file. I choose not to blame the police department or the military in how they're ordered to deploy. The personal wealth of individuals has never been a factor in my experience.

Yes the two incidents are separate and Caledonia had people being refused protection by police. Obviously political and poor bugger on the ground was told to follow orders. Point being, the same thing can and most certainly will reoccur in a really bad situation. I really like simple and use it all the time when making my point with private or public sector folks I encounter. I am told a door or site is secure by the “pros”. I then proceed to embarrass them by showing how pathetic their security is. Do it all the time. Gets real embarrassing sometimes but hey, that’s my job sometimes/ finding gaps in the plans.

Here’s a perfect example of which I spoke. Funny that the gov suddenly wished to settle when possible witnesses from the POLICE were perhaps ready to tell the truth about how they were told to NOT protect the citizens they are obliged by law to protect!
Here’s another good example https://nationalpost.com/opinion/christie-blatchford-caledonia-natives-still-calling-the-shots

Point I am making is, there IS and will be a difference in police and military protection services between rich or well. Connected and poor schleps. Yes officer bob and Mary is a great person and will help when they can or are permitted but they will and have followed orders. Orders come from the top, the top protects itself over bottom. Then there is the little thing of resources. I wrote about how the poor buggers in ottawa who suffered from tornado, couldn’t even get the city to keep a cruiser in the area to protect against looters and gawkers! No money, resources... so in the nations capital and during a really small and isolated event, the entire police force couldn’t or wouldn’t help the citizens! And some think that in a major situation, that the response would be better? Any and all resources will be focused on high value people and locations.

I had two out of shape young military men show up at my property thirteen days after the ice storm hit. City of Ottawa had military helping remove what is in my world, twigs from the streets. Past spring had no one from military sand bagging ottawa and Gatineau homes but montreal got help. So there you have it. To start with, Not enough resources and secondly, those limited resources will be deployed where power dictates it. The rest are up snot creek without a paddle.

Maybe I am wrong and there are no preferential treatments for the top. I must be wrong

Oh and I am FARRRRRRR from some social justice warrior. Staunch conservative but also honest enough to know I am not going to get treated as equal as someone with more financial or political clout then me. That’s life