Who can you really trust?

Well very good post indeed. Sorry Im coming late to the party and reading everything here I think I can honestly say that pretty much everything has been covered.

I myself am a lone wolfe and although I understand I need the,.. wait I don't need the help of others but I do feel it is a welcomed twist. I have initiated gatherings and met some cool folks and some not so cool folks. Some have stood out right away to be dismissed and others have taken some time to have me looking sideways about a particular issue that needs more in depth thought. So Ill go ahead and throw this out there.

Some people appreciate the fact that others know this or that, to compliment the lack thereof of their own skills. Although overall in the game of life I feel this is an excellent way to grow and prosper, however, something I have seen in person, and very well articulated here in this post, is for mysql,f I quite strongly think I get along with people of similar character. Go getters. The folks whom can do a little of everything. I don't want a welder per say because I cannot weld. Fact is it is my belief that I can do quite a bit on my own, and I do believe I may have most of my bases covered. Take into account those that walk off in the woods alone to make a life. I know personally of a few and keep in contact and thats all cool but my jist is I feel that some of the best groups will have a few or more of folks, that can take on just about any challenge that comes their way. It might not be pretty, but they will get the job done. Sports come to mind, or maybe even martial arts, and we refer it to cross training . Knowing 1 system only leaves you open in many respects. Take the guy that has the land, money and guns but understands he needs allies. Would I trust him? Not likely. Take the guy that is the all-star hunter do I really need this when there are so many more things to consider? Not likely. Its my very firm belief that a lone wolfe can do it. Im sure some of you have heard me talk this way before but I think there are no better allies then those whom have similar traits, and believe we can do many many different functions to keep a group strong. People will need to pair off and acquire food. 2 chances are better than one and these duties can and should be done by all at different times to hone their skill. I would not like to have to hunt everyday for all. Someone else needs to take up the slack while I maybe build a roof or vise versa. So i really do think the lone wolfe mentality is the way to go. After all we are all alphas in our own way just by being here.

Those are my thoughts for a great leading post!

Bottom line is getting together and learning each others traits to decide whether this will pan out as a possible alliance or not. Time DOES tell all, and the more you work together the better off you will be at making a decision for SHTF. I would always take a person with passion than one with skills as the skills will come because the passion is there. So a group passionate lone wolves that can work out differences is what I think will get the job done. However there is one very very important thing to be said and that IS the pressure. Some crack and some come alive! So when in your group activities try to through a bunch of stress out there. Change it up for the worst, and Im talking all in fun here not being an asshole. Watch how they react and how they hold themselves or others at situations that present themselves. Whe you find your lone wolfe that comes alive under pressure and can do it with a smile,…. this person has almost made the grade of alliance. You just have to keep the meetings alive as was said before, and pick your compliments, have fun, eat dinner and prep together.

Screedcrete I'm with you.. i would rather have a jack of all trades rather then a master of one. Gives the ability to think outside the box.

Trust for me is like an investment. I give everybody some and see what they do with it. Its a little like panning for gold. It is worth the expense, labour and risk when you find a nugget. But you have to be prepared to go the distance and accept the losses. In a crisis you would not have the time/opportunity to evaluate every possible threat and so out of fear you will likely lose a lot of gold.

Ways

Goldie asked "Why only couples ?"

One reason is that there is strength in numbers. No matter how much I have a hard time choosing who to trust, there's no denying it.
I think if I am going to trust someone, I can trust his or her spouse. I also think that it will be good to have people who work well together and can communicate. Most couples do well together because they compliment each other. For example: One is good at cooking and gardening while the other is good at building and hunting.
I am not saying it would be only couples, but that is just the majority of the people on my 'list'. Maybe because as someone with a young family I have moved away from the single life and have more friendships with my family, my partners family and other couples with and without children.

If you are a "single" prepper with all the equipment and supplies, ( or attempting to become a
fully stocked prepper) , you are an easy target. It just naturally makes me more wary as to
who I tell what I have or what I do. So I wonder if other single preppers feel this same way.

I can see why you would feel this way and it makes total sense. I have a partner so I don't feel totally alone. But two is almost as easy of a target as one. Especially when we have children to look out for.

I think finding trusted friends and/or family to plan with might be an asset. I am personally looking to people I trust who are within a close proximity to my location. As much as I may want to band with family or friends who are a distance away, it may not be possible depending how things go down.

At least if it's family or close friends I am comfortable with them knowing about my prepping and supplies.

..........it is fragile at best..trusting a complete stranger with even what you fear and the reasons you prepare can be a huge step...

Besides my wife, I have one true friend and He is the only one I would trust my life with....And this is by no means a slight to my Friends in my Emergency preparedness group, its just He and I have gone through some things together and we trust each other immensely......

.......The problem you have to consider is everyone reacts different in High pressure situations, the calm/coolest person you know, can become the biggest panic ridden Jackass in a pressure situation...

One thing myself and a couple of folks in our group have learned and agree on is the One's that talk a big game usually turn out to be the worst and least trusting....Just our opinion and observations.....

You have to consider what you are dealing with, " A bunch of ALPHA'S " you cant control them, you cant boss them, and you better not try to manipulate or bully them.... all you can do is bring them together and delicately steer them, and keep the topic focused, because believe you me discussions in any Emergency preparedness group can head out into left field and of the reservation real fast....
But back to the main Question, of who can you trust...YOU TRUST NOW ONE....."and build from there".....that's been mine and our group consensus, and so far it has worked pretty well....

Very well put, traveller. I agree with you and admire you skepticism.

hey everyone 🙂
Great points that are creating needed discussion 🙂
Personally, I believe one should be able to trust a fellow prepper who has become a friend, and only when they know eachother well enough to do that. Trust takes TIME to develop.

That is the whole idea behind building a self sustainable community.

Basically;
If you don’t want this:
http://www.activistpost.com/2012/01/only-two-types-of-people-will-survive.html
get this going:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp1x_cVbd80&feature=related

🙂

Trust for me is like an investment. I give everybody some and see what they do with it. Its a little like panning for gold. It is worth the expense, labour and risk when you find a nugget. But you have to be prepared to go the distance and accept the losses. In a crisis you would not have the time/opportunity to evaluate every possible threat and so out of fear you will likely lose a lot of gold.

Ways

This sounds about right to me.

I wanna talk about the Alpha thang. Been thinking about it all day. This is more philosophical ... so cut me some slack.
If you think you are an alpha but don't have a pack following you....or are even part of a pack...you are just not an alpha. Don't fool yourself, Dog.

Just thought I would throw that out there as a usual C5 thing to say and face a few raised hackles.

Same goes for the lone wolf. Ive been around wolves (One of my best life stories was holding off a pack of wolves with a samurai sword. No shit)...(It was less dramatic than it sounds...but damn dramatic at the time...and makes a better story around the camp fire than what actually happened) A lone wolf is not really a wolf. Its just a big dog...at best. A reject that threatened the cohesion of the pack and had to be driven away. At best...a sub alpha. Probably not. Lone wolves cant hunt with the pack so their fate is usually malnutrition , slow starvation...and death. They do have a place in nature in that they sneak in to bang the occasional stray female, adding genetic diversity to the pack to avoid inbreeding ...and hopefully get out with their lives...but still die young and alone. It really doesn't matter if you've grown tough enough to take on the alpha. If The alpha challenges you ( don't be so vain as to think you will confront the alpha) You wont be fighting the alpha alone. The pack will attack you from behind. Your fate is misery.

That is where the sub alpha male stands..., highly competent....angry loners, eagerly waiting for the collapse so they can prove that the pack was wrong and that they can be real men again.

News flash! Its going to be even worse after a collapse, Dog....whether its a fast crash or multi generational slow crash.

Don't worry. Im not singling anyone out. This is just theory for every one to mentally wrestle with. It get worse because I will now talk about....

Cro-Magnon man ( Oh crap, some how this got posted before I finished my thought. I'll have to edit it. Too late. I'll just post the rest as a "Part Two")

Part 2. OK. Up till this part, I have been anthropomorphizing. This comes from our co dependent survival relation with dogs. Really.

Back to Cro-Magnon man. They were not dumb. Most of us have Cro-Magnon genes. They cohabitated and bred with Modern Man. In many ways, they were superior. Stronger. Larger lungs capacity and chest cavity to deal with cold climates. Well organised caves and tool usage. Very independent family units. And yet they didn't make it. Modern man prevailed because to two things. Unlike Cro-Mags, MMs developed a relationship with dogs and eventually developed specialisation. This eventually led to greater tool development. One person could devote themselves entirely to flint knapping and still expect to be fed. The disposable males went out to hunt wile women and children dug tubers and gathered plants. You could lose 95% of the men in a disaster and yet the tribe survived. Dogs began by following human packs, eating our shit and garbage. I still cant keep my dogs out of our Black compost. Lovely breath when they kiss me. Yuck. They became a deterrent against other big predators that were happy to snack on the soft, clawless humans, warning us of attacks and gobbling up vermin. Eventually we became one because we were similar, got each other and became stronger than the sum of our parts. Evolution through co operation and adaption.
Not so much for Cro-Magnons. We know this because of the bones in their dwellings. Lets start with, that they hunted and ate the dogs that were following them. Im sure it seemed like a good idea at the time. Yay. Easy food that came to you. Like any good survivalist family (I think you can figure out what I am getting at) they were small family units and didn't get past that. No specialisation. the men, women an children all participated in the hunts. We know this because of the healed broken bones and antler punctures in the women and children. Where it get really interesting (and prophetic to the lone wolf, single family, survivalist ideology) is that they ate their dead. No shite. No one really knows if they killed each other for food or just ate corpses for survival or if it was some sort of ritual...but you can not mistake the tool marks on the bones consistent with animal butchery or cracking the bones to get the marrow out. Dogs and humans become a perverse suburban parody of Chuck Swindals Focus On the Family.

And that is where we stand. Ive began to wonder if the primary thing we have been striving towards and teaching others is that prepping is about embracing and celebrating our inner Cro-mag. Judging from the bones...I don't know how good of a strategy it is.

thanks for tolerating my meanderings. Like I said at the beginning, this is only philosophising.

Hmmmm very interesting take on your lone wolfe thang C5 and me thinks its open to at least some slight interpretations, at least for me. Now your going to have to cut ME some slack on this one as well please as Im not up on my wolfepack 101. Didn't care for biology either but I have watched a lot of Mutual of Omaha,… 😕 First off I would say you may be onto something about the lone wolfe being shunned from the pack for one reason or another, but I think its fair to say that somehow, some way, he left himself open. He may have compromised the pack yes, and in that case its easy to grasp your theory and with all do respect to the preppers, if someone were to compromise the group I would say he may be run off as well to avoid future complications. BUT,.. What about if this leader ( Im talking wolves again now) came off a hunt and was injured in the process and in turn run off due to the fact the next strongest individual wolfe would rise to the challenge and run off the Alpha male due to the strength of the group being somewhat diminished,….. in the animal world this might be a viable outcome for the better of the pack, but we are humans. ( Speaking of the prepping group now) I would say that if an Alpha comes back hurt ( and in all honestly in my vision of a group of preppers there is NO Alpha as we are all in this together and we come to an agreement on how to proceed ) If my so called Alpha came back to camp hurt I would not shun him/her nearly for the sake there is an injury. I would hope that the group would show the compassionate side of human behaviour and help mend and support that injured person. After all, you based this group on mutual agreement and the strength it can produce in the ways that it can. I would also dare to say that (talking humans here again) that if there was a next in line that was willing to shun this hurt individual I would start to get a very ugly taste in my mouth for this second individual, as what will happen to me if I have a break an ankle or suffer severe vomiting for one reason or another. Could I be next???

This is something that I personally feel no one should have to go through or experience in such an already very stressful situation, and this is why ( personally again) I feel there should be level ground between the group and everyone takes part in all the activities and leading roles if the shoe fits. I mean if the group were pinned down for one reason or another, and a 9yr old comes up with a plan thats going to cut the mustard am I really going to dismiss this because he/she is only 9yrs old. No way! Im a bigger man than that and id vote for that plan no matter where it came from. If the talk went around the fire and its deemed a good plan then go with it. To do otherwise I think is plain silly!

What Im getting at is animals are animals and there is a different energy at work with them. Im not even going to get into Mr. CroMag cause well,... I think all of us here have hopefully moved beyond this stage by 18 LOL

Those are my thoughts for this time. I have been thinking of this post all day as well and to see your theory I would like to raise you this,…. For myself I have been trying to look inward on a personal level. Something I have been doing or should I say TRYING for some time and I was thinking today of something that definitely requires more thought on my end, so id like to present it here for some feedback if there would be any.

It goes along the line of spirituality,….. yes there it is I said it! I think members of a good group both morally and strong there needs to be some spiritual aspects to people. I really don't know how to explain it, but along with everything else I think this may be a very big one to consider. Peoples hearts need to be in the right place, and I think this is where couples and kids come into play. A father will not want to put his own family in a precarious situation because of what he has on the table. Along with that I would say another father or mother wouldn't ask that father to do that either as we are all facing the same factors out there.

Again i think the bottom line is everything that we are talking about kind of demands you spend enough time with your alliance NOW as it WILL not and CAN not happen at the time of crisis, and this is the reason we so desperately (term used lightly) need to get our groups together and go through the motions of project building, team building, work parties and YES DINNER 😆 This way you get to fully understand your relationship within a group setting and how you can, or can't all get along.

It has been my experience that we all love to come here and talk, and talk is great but it won't cut the cloth when the time comes. We need time in the saddle together to truly get a gut feel don't we?

So please,... any spiritual takers out there??

Maybe Lone wolf is not a great term ... maybe that wolf that might be alone at the time is a confident member of a pack, packs do not exclusively only work as a group. They also spread out to cover more area, and call the group together when they need to. That lone wolf might be alone by necessity at a time, therefore alone in that time and place. It also may be an elder member of a pack that is keeping watch as other pack members, including it's mate are otherwise occupied, but they all know that they can return to their base (camp) territory because the one old wolf that has been keeping care of it.
I kind of feel the same way about the term Alpha, being a strong functioning part of a group does not imply you are the Alpha in a pack. Being the best hunter, the best builder or the richest in supplies or materials does not make you Alpha. If you beat every other member of your group into submission, maybe your an Alpha, more than likely your not truly, you are probably just another word that starts with A and your back is always open no matter which way you turn.

I do hate labels, but sometimes for ease I think we use them to describe ourselves or others, which I am as guilty as the next person.

I just want to re state that I wasn't singling out anyone so, hopefully, no feelings were hurt. I wanted to point out that the job of a Real alpha is to take care of the pack, Big to small, Making sure they are fed, safe, organised and generally happy. If you want to know if you are an alpha or a leader, simply look behind you and see if anyone is following. LOL.
I originally wanted to talk about my own story of building trust in the group......But it wasn't coming out very interesting. LOL. I figured My philosophical meanderings would be more entertaining to the readers. 😉 😉

Yes, Ethics and Morality plays in. I don't want to lead or organise. It took years of me wrestling with that before I had to force myself to Step Up. I have the potential to feed several and provide a safe zone...Therefore I have a responsibility to save as many as I can. If I can get a group functioning properly...then that will provide even more food and safety. I think if I play this right, I may be able to take on an extra 10 unprepared people....thus creating more food and more safety in a snowballing civilising fashion with hopes it sustains itself when I am dead and composted.

I also agree of the miss use of the Alpha term at least for what I believe to be the best situation for myself. I also understand there are really no perfect situations and I am prepared to bend and adjust accordingly. I know that in previous positions in life and work history, I tend to have trouble with Alphas and please let me explain in slightly more depth here. I have no trouble being led, if we call it that. I respect strong individuals for all the reasons that make them strong. The last thing someone needs is being led by an incompetent individual and this does not mean always incompetent. As said I do well being led by a strong respected individual but the issue for myself is when this Alpha demonstrates poor decision making and would refuse to adjust and adapt to the situation at hand. Now given the fact that the Alpha makes 98% good decision making, and at one or three times he is calling for a poor plan and execution of something and does not back down at least long enough to reconsider and take into account others feelings and concerns,…. this is where I fall off the wagon with Alphas in general. Now there is also some grey area here to explore as I also understand nobody is right all the time and people make mistakes, but I feel they need to have built up some respect in order to come out of situations like that. If your are respected within your group whether Alpa or not, then there is a very good chance you will be forgiven for a mistake in judgement and again this may be where group consensus comes into play. The more minds on a particular problem or set of circumstances will probably come to a better conclusion, and lets face it, even if the group decides on a plan of action and it turns out to be wrong, I think it would be safe to say we would all sit around the fire and look at the losses or failure at hand and agree that we DID all agree, and well,…. we made a wrong decision. This will strengthen the group more IMO, and thus bring everyone just a little more harmoniously together in the end to work harder, and al little smarter next time. Im a firm believer that mistakes are GOOD things, but only if you have learned something from them. If the group learns and grows as a whole, is this not better than a sole patron of a group getting a learned lesson? The whole group becomes stronger when working together. My issue of group politics comes up in my mind again and again, and I believe a cohesive group joining minds for decision making should eleviate most politics. If an issue goes around the fire pit on how to achieve something for the group, and you don't agree with the majority of the opinions you fully understand that the majority of the group wished for a particular plan and maybe you will need to bend your opinion slightly because after all, if you are not the majority then you may also be wrong in your feelings on how it should all pan out, and when we give into our ego in this sense we often gain something in return. Furthermore one should understand that if you don't follow the majority and just can't find it in your heart to accept there may be a better way,….. theres the open door to be shunned by the group. I mean if your just going to pick up your ball and go home because you don't like someone well I wouldn't think your holding the groups best interests at heart and you would be looked at in a different light, and thus find yourself alone.

I don't know if the comment is directed at me or not but I can assure you I take no offence personally at all about anything said here or anywhere. I know I have come off on these pages a little radical at times, maybe conceded, or even anal, and for theses times I do apologize because I am cincearly not. Again, as my personal growth continues to develop, I understand some of my own approaches can sometimes be just that. My own (my ego). As a leader in many things and endeavours that I have seen through, I think I can also say its nice to hear from the group so you know your not rubbing anyone the wrong way and thus also relieving some of the pressure on myself because I know this was a mutual consensus and takes a lot of personal risk away from myself as well.

Its always the manager that is first to go as he is supposed to uphold the group and still meet the agenda of getting the work done in a timely efficient manner so there is the ALPHA right there. When the group says no we can't, this won't work, and the manager is a good one,... he knows how to rally the troops, instill faith that it CAN be done, and he better have the tact and ability to see it through and hopefully not cheese off the workers in the progress ( like having the nightshift put in extra hrs but the day shifters get the usual. This will of course amount to animosity being built around you and in the end make your job harder to achieve overall. Alphas ride a fine line and thats why i think a mutual, level headed, conjoined concencus would be a solid plan of attack for the group, its prosperity and wellbeing while still keeping morale in a positive direction.

Great thoughts everywhere on this one!!

I too feel this particular thread has been a great conversation and a bit of an air clearing.
I tend to always be the lone wolf in the woods, mostly because of my lifestyle, I have a virtually impossible time getting to any of the group meet ups, have only managed to make it to 1 in Bieseker a fair time ago. I met several people there that I would really like to know better, but I work a long ways away from my homes and work all the time my total days off in a year only add up to about 40 (demands of job not workaholic)and 1/2 of those days off are ate up travelling. I am prepping locations in multiple places across 2 provinces, because I never know where I maybe if / when SHTF so I always need to be ready from wherever I am. Prepping is not a hobby it is a way of life for me.
Anyway my point is I absolutely see the want and need for other companions of stout heart, but have almost zero time to meet anyone other than in this type of group. I am a serious Doubting Thomas, who has been burned many times so I am becoming a sceptic of trust but believe it is what we must have to make community, no one is perfect, so we need to proceed with all caution but proceed we must for the sake of our humanity.

Ironically, I can fully understand what you are saying.

For me it also long distance and being responsible for animals is a killer for meetings with such short hours in winter time. Not to mention deep freezes you must be home to attend to wood fires or pipes will freeze.

In summer it gets worse, then there is gardening, home/farm repairs, firewood to get in before fall, hatching, sales of hatchings, etc.. Leaves little enough time for all that and sure not traveling for many hours of the day.

Again I agree, prepping is not a hobby, for me its a life style which many look down on and/or frowned upon. Some ppl will and do use that to their advantage as well, to try to win your trust. :/

Myself, being burnt more times then I really want to count ... well let's just say I am rather gun shy on the trusting subject.
It has taken me many, many months and even years of contact with the ppl I have in my area. So very few I can trust, others are still on the hmmm list with me.
Some ppl are very good at deception.

So I understand your using the word of being A Lone Wolf. 🙂

Its not easy being a 'lone wolf' but one day, you never know....never give up cause that's when you may fail.

I refuse to give up...to stubborn to know better so I have been told.lol

This is one of the best treads I have read so far. I can't write a full response at this moment (because I will be called away soon). But I did want to say that the day of the Alpha is over. The day of the charismatic leader is done. We as species are growing up. Group decision making takes a much long time to arrive at a decision but the implementation has no resistance because we all own the decision. Where decisions made by an individual requires just as much time to sell to the group and never gets fully implemented.

Spirituality is not a bad word. My studies of successful communities reveal that they are all based on some kind of spiritual belief systems.

Ways