Who can you really trust?

Not to stir the pot, but the democratic process can be just as bad as the charismatic alpha. 10 uninformed fools (microcasm of the world we live in) won't reach the correct choice any more than a poor dictator will.

I really like this thread ... I think it is making many clear and defining points on Trust and Leadership.

I have been thinking more about what I was trying to say about Lone Wolf the term.
I think I came up with a simple point on it ... if you see a wolf standing on a road in the woods is that a lone wolf ... you decide, but is it based on what you see or on what you do not see.

I also strongly agree that leaders don't just lead, they follow as well. They are not always right but have displayed sound judgement often enough for others to willingly follow them.

I should also make it clear that I happen to think there are just as many good female leaders as male, maybe more. Sometimes I think our conversations seem to be very male oriented in their phrasing, and if I come off that way it is not meant as offensive to anyone.

This is one of the best treads I have read so far. I can't write a full response at this moment (because I will be called away soon). But I did want to say that the day of the Alpha is over. The day of the charismatic leader is done. We as species are growing up. Group decision making takes a much long time to arrive at a decision but the implementation has no resistance because we all own the decision. Where decisions made by an individual requires just as much time to sell to the group and never gets fully implemented.

Spirituality is not a bad word. My studies of successful communities reveal that they are all based on some kind of spiritual belief systems.

Ways

Good perceptions in this thread , for sure....and getting to the reasons that most known systems of governance are variably dysfunctional....especially when emotional immaturity is mistaken for charismatic conviction... "jus' git er dun!"
Democratic process ( misnomer as known) should also not be mistaken for true consensus, and yes, the latter takes more time till everyone gets the process. Impatience with such requirements is a sign of lacking emotional maturity, and its extreme form equates with violence,...hardly a creative force for sustainable communication. Inevitably, the investment of energy in such expression makes its authors want to defend his/er output ,further compromising the airwaves of communication possibilities, at least...if not sabotaging any trust to date.

I have found it very useful to have considered the parameters of any group's willingness to align with real consensus.
That shows the real openness to an experience of ego-less"collective wisdom", and is most promising for checks and balances, co-creative outcomes. At a certain point, it's as if "decisions don't have to be made". They are just more and more obvious when all input is accommodated, considered in natural stages of expressed concern, with substantive points.
Now, there will seem to be times when "we just don't have time to have a 2hr meeting before action needs to be taken".
In my experience, and those of others working for a while as described, by that time the process becomes faster, smoother, and yes..enlightening. It is at the very least a valid exercise in discipline in an area which many, including so-called alphas, tend to avoid. Ask why.
Sure there will be exceptions during the learning curve, for the benefit of a group's education...such as when a single person can block a group decision. There is an app for that, and your group's remedy may be uniquely beneficial to share with others.
This is not about an anal-izing mindset, but a heart/mind set which visibly respects each participant as they learn the skills of co-operation within the groups' predefined parameters and vision/mission. All the colours of human expression will be there...not stifled by command, but enhanced by acceptance of the best effort by each....made possible in/by a forum of welcoming all perspectives, and letting them become obvious on their group-considered merits.
This is the primal skill/challenge required for critical mass change of most broad creative potential, no matter what the circumstance. Learning the process usually requires familiarization by an experienced facilitator in an actual group meeting, and that could eventually be anyone who finds the right stuff within her/im/self.

For any interested, there's a very good outline of the framework ..."A guide to formal consensus"- Butler and Baird,..last time i checked. There are other good approaches out there too... NVC non-violent communication,...
I've met a few individuals who were naturals at this , and haven't heard of it....rare though.

Villager I love reading your post........... at least what I understand of them. I have not been around many people who can compress language like you do. It is quite alright but it can make for a difficult time thinking about how or if one can or should respond. I would like to tell a story about a First Nations community I went to for a loan of some money to fund a project I was working on in another native community. I went and made my pitch. Knowing I was going to be talking to people who for the most part had very little education I though I needed to talk using smaller words and simple phrases and such.

After I finished my pitch and was waiting for them to consider weather or not they were going to give us the funds. One of the old guys said, ' We are not to sure what your are saying but we think you are doing a good thing. So we will help. Someone came to me before I left and told me my language was to strange for them to understand but they liked me.

I now really know how they felt.

Ways

Thank you everyone for all your thoughts on this thread. I wish I was more poetic in my ability to write. Half the time what I write and how people understand what I write are not the same.

Waystoprepare, glad it worked out for you

Those who put the time and effort into making a relationship better should top the list of those who can be trusted.
If part of a group then time and effort along with input and understanding become traits to look for.
Leaders will emerge and develope just as they do in life now. The groups that thrive and survive will have people who can transition and develope. Until the SHTF the strongest groups will be those who can live for today, prepare for tomorrow and do what I tell them... 😮 😯 😆 😆 😆
Hopefully you are laughing as much as I am only about the parting shot for chuckles sake.

quietman . i believe the sarcasm, but do you mean self-deprecation, and not self-deprivation 🙂 (:

Hey everyone. I have really enjoyed reading all the replies on this thread. It turned out to be a great discussion.

Speaking of discussion; I saw a post for an Emergency Preparedness Meeting in Calgary. Can anyone tell me: Are there any meetings like this in the Red Deer area?? I think my partner and I would enjoy some like-minded discussion. It would be nice to connect at an open meeting in our area. Anyone in Red Deer or the outlying areas of Red Deer know of anything?

Get it while you can. Today only. Survival Summit discussion on MAGs or mutual assistance groups
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTf88qMrs1M#t=496

Who's got skin in the game? People with nothing left to lose, lose it. I don't trust those with nothing to lose. Judging the rest takes time.

I've been following the discussions too.
Personally, I prefer the idea of a group or community of inter-related groups working towards survival. That is what community really means.

Also, though I know I have many good leadership ideas, I never like being the leader as someone else always is wanting to be the leader. I personally like working behind the scenes supporting my leader and leadership levels with my expertise.

I think I can survive long enough until I manage to hook up with any 1 of 3 of my preferred groups. #1 preference would be the mid-level choice for travel since my leader of that group has the right attitude and skill set, plus he is my best friend. I like a statement he made once, in the presence of another member of the group - we all agreed; "when the SHTF comes, there will be no such thing as democracy." We all understand our roles already, as a shared set of skills and resources. We know who's bringing what to the table, and even if we lack a portion of our cache(s) when we meet up, we will support the others cause we know we can either build the resources or food supply again.

Plus, if someone doesn't want to shoot for defense, they will be assigned another task. But, if push comes to shove, and another set of eyes or hands are needed for defense, they understand they will be pressed into action.

EDIT- Everyone's coming to the table with a lot of good ideas.

In a group , you are only as good as your weakest link. If you have identified someone weak in morals or ability to keep a confidence , I would be cutting bait and removing that element from a group now. How useful is that person, well, another way to look at it is if they are only looking out for themselves, how dangerous are they ? Good luck !

I liked the insight you share, singlecell. Very well spoken.
You too, Syn.

I relocated 2 1/2 years ago and am just beginning to understand my 'good Christian' neighbors in a small town. Time, which I fear is in short supply is my enemy. At this point I would fear for my life if my 'good Christian' neighbors knew the level of my preparations AND their children were in danger of starvation.

I choose to 'hold my cards close to my chest' with very few exceptions at the present time. Playing the 'grey man' or the trader 'who knows a guy who has...' will be my best course of action I believe. If you kill the goose where do you get golden eggs from? I hate to be distrustful but I am because I judge people on their actions, not their words. Some 'good peoples' (just ask them!) actions are less than honorable.

I also have a neighbor who wishes I was his older brother rather than his (very successful) biological older brother who is very near my age. We work well together and solve problems quite readily while working on various projects. We horse trade on a regular basis. If I need help I can call on him and vice verse. This is my most trusted neighbor who walks a path near parallel the path I walk.

It's not ONLY who you know but how you know them. I'd rather have an average Joe I trust with me than a Buckaroo Bonzai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Buckaroo_Banzai_Across_the_8th_Dimension that I don't trust.

Just my two bits.