Another Act of Terrorism.

Oh, I have an opinion on the matter....
But I will leave it in wiser and more respected hand than mine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cmm2PAm48E

Hmmm, what if these YouTube videos aren’t really an answer to pressing real world issues? What if these issues are nothing new? What if the issues have existed for 1000 years? What if they have existed for 2000 years? What if we just choose to ignore them? Even worse what if we were just ignorant of them? Worsted of all what if we really believed the answer could be presented in 3min 44sec YouTube video?

Hmmm, Now you and I have gotten on fine since showing up. Do you really want to bring up the "2000 year" thang. At which time you are speaking Religious War....And that is hate speech...and a Poison in the prepper movement...that stretches back to the early influences of Christian Reconstructionists, The Arian Nations and the Birch Society. POISON...and the exact reason for the Prepper movement splitting off from the excesses of the Survivalist movement during the 80s. People seem to miss that when they pick a fight, if they get a fight in return, why should they feel so outraged? Have you known me to back down from a fight, so far.

Now, Lets step back and take one big a$$ed breath here. I wont post here again for several days so everyone can get their pride and humility balanced. Just remember that I have Muslim relatives... decent, average Canadians... that did me well in tough personal times. If you are f###ing with their personal safety...
You Will Be Fu###ing With Me!

Cermnunnos5 I think you missed the point. Really, really missed the point! There are some who turn to platforms like YouTube to provide insight answers to real current issues. This is a very shallow approach that usually develops in a vacuum of knowledge. I do not take you as one of these people. Not knowing or being aware of history leads us to a path where it will inventively be repeated. Religious conflict is not a new problem it has existed for millennia. In one form or another it has accompanied man in his journey since he first learned to communicate. This is not something that is confined to one or two religions but is found in every one, throughout history. Pick up a history book and check.

Conflict and war, all wars not just those that stem from a facade of religious differences, are a condition of mankind. To make a statement like “you are speaking Religious War....And that is hate speech” is not helpful. Not helpful at all. It is inflammatory, wrong and just plain nonsense.

Most of us have friends that belong to a variety of cultures, ethnic backgrounds and religions. We do so because we live in this great country. We can do so because the very fabric of the nation is one of tolerance and understanding. Tolerance and understanding do not develop in a vacuum. Tolerance and understanding develop from ongoing discourse between everyone on every subject. That is one way in which understanding is reached in civilised societies.

There seem to be some that cannot read a post without letting their personal prejudices and bias jump in. They try to read between the lines and reach fanciful conclusions about intent that is simply not there. I do not take you as one of these people either. I hope that you will sit back, take a breath, read the post again and see it for what it really is and return in a less confrontational manner.

(I wrote this note off line before posting. I have been off the board and busy. This is the first time I have been back. I wrote this before reading IRCCs response. I want it clearly stated that it is not an attack on IRCC whom I get along with and has always been a supporter of myself. I will post it as I wrote it. I felt it had to be said.. I wont be back again for a wile as my homestead is all consuming at this time)

2 Corinthians 3:6

New International Version (NIV)

6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

In 2011, Anders Behring Breivik murdered 77 people, manly teenagers. Their crime, either being Muslim or supporters of multiculturalism. His intent was to start a War against Muslims and drive them out of Europe.

To date, there are over a million civilian deaths in the assorted Middle East wars we are waging. Not quite the 5 million jews killed by Hitler...but we are working on it. Some may think, hey, we are not the US. No, but we are backing them and are just as morally responsible.

In the aftermath of the British murder, Militant Ultra Nationalist like Breivik went on a rampage, damaging 9 mosques, one fire bombed wile occupied with worshipers, and un numbered mobbing attacks on anyone identified as Muslim. Basically, anyone with brown skin. Ive been seeing a lot of this lately. In Greece, they have even managed to take over a large percentage of parliament, flying an obviously modified swastika, with police showing support and participating in beatings of immigrants. All I can keep thinking to myself is, "How short memoried and stupid are people, exactly?"

My contention is not with IRCCs show of support to a fallen soldier. Its what follows. They are just common criminals. They are cowards. Basically, "THEY" are not like "US". They have no honour, They don't love their children, They are savages, They are not human like us. These are the necessary steps to get rational people to kill other people in wars or GENOCIDES. First, you have to supress basic human empathy towards another human. You have to depersonalise THEM. You have to de humanise them.

I can not keep from hearing the voice of a little Rwandan girl before her limbs were hacked off her. "Please stop. I promise not to be Tutsi anymore".

When I first became aware that a civil war was brewing in the U.S. I started listening to the propaganda, the AM radio and Youtube clips, crunching the numbers in my head, and instantly remembered where I had heard this before. This was almost identical to the propaganda machine that went on for years leading up to the Rwandan genocide. Almost word for word. It wont be a war for liberation. It will be a pent up, explosive, civil bloodbath. Bosnia coming to a neibourhood near you. I present this for your consideration.

http://migs.concordia.ca/occpapers/radio_pr.html

All day yesterday, wile rebuilding my hay and firewood tailor, a rhetorical question kept rolling around in my head. At what point, during WW2 did some guy named Frits turn to some guy named Hans and say, "You know, I'm beginning to wonder if we are the bad guys in this story". Did it really take the allies marching civilians into the death camps to rub their noses in it?

My grandfather almost lost an arm, marching through Europe killing any that opposed him, the last time an Ultra Nationalist Cult ran amuck. I'm glad he is dead so I don't have to explain to him that its happening again at home and is amongst the same subgroup that I represent. I'm pretty embarrasses to call myself a prepper at the moment.

Which gets us on to JAB and WR and hate speech. It helps me to understand some of the attitude I've been getting lately. Great. At least its out in the open instead of lurking in the shadows. I'm not going to call them Militant Ultra Nationalist, or Reconstructionist, or the new face of the family friendly Aryan Nations simply replacing race for class, bypassing all those pesky laws. I don't know them well enough....But I can damn well tell you the literature the have been reading to build their personal narrative...and are spreading to new recruits.

The scripture I put at the start is one of the references our culture uses to talk about The Letter of The Law versus The Spirit of The Law. The Spirit has definitely been broken. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_and_spirit_of_the_law . Do I think they should be Kicked off the board? No. I think its important to be able to criticize religions. I'll be doing a lot of criticizing Reconstructionist Theology and its influence in the prepper movement when I get back to writing after the snow falls again. But lets stab right into this war of yours against a "recognised group".

What, exactly, group of Muslims are you at war with....or are all Muslims part of the conspiracy. At present, their are over 150 sects. Are you at war with the Amish version Islam, How about the cloistered mystic Franciscan version, perhaps the Jerry Farwell, Pat Robertson version of Islam. Persians or Arabs. Perhaps those evil Liberal Muslims. The average, hard working, Mom and Pop Muslim must be part of this plot to subvert "OUR" way of life. And what the hell is our way life anyhow? Probably not mine. Hockey and Wal-Mart? 100 channels of Dancing with The Stars and Canadian Idol? The right to strip mine our own and every other countries resources because of divine right?

Hang on, Don't all Muslims do honor killings? Last time I checked, Our Way of Life included The 67 women killed in domestic homicide last year and lets not forget the 30 killing of Homosexuals...since that subject seems to be coming up a lot (oh ya, Ive been accused of hatespeach of Men for pointing out that men and pickup trucks are not interchangeable and interdependent. Insane) You know...I'm done with this. Challenge the rest of it yourself.

Let me know if you have heard this recent joke. "I sure hope that latest bomber wasn't a Saudi Nationalist...because we will have to invade Iraq and Afghanistan again..."

Whats making me bitter is that I don't have TIME for this. I have until the snow fall to turn this piece of land into a completely self sufficient Homestead. Im busting my muscles and money getting ready for the change like every prepper should be doing. Not looking for scapegoats and cheering your political side and planning war. We are well past the point of "Solutions". There are only rational responses left. Our society was built to run on 20$ a barrel oil. Those days and the way of life built on it are gone FOREVER. Loss of energy capital means loss of capital which means debt, lack of investment and jobs. Deal with it and adapt. People will be panicking, angry and looking for who to blame...and I have to take a day off of work to confront this propaganda in my own back yard...

So, Why am I bothering? Its not to hear myself speak. Its not to prove how smart I am. Perhaps you have heard this quote.

"First the came for the Socialists and I said nothing...because I was nor a socialist.

Next, they came for the Trade Unionists and I said nothing...because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews and I said nothing because I was not a Jew (Muslim, Homosexual, Liberal, Scientist, Take your pick).

When they came for me...There was no one left to speak to speak for me."

At least there are a few people on this board speaking up and standing in the gap.

Perhaps, the last speech By Ron Paul I sent wasn't the most relevant. This is the one I should have sent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjtu8kQVzlw

The Irony is not lost on me that I am quoting a Reconstructionist. Just goes to show that not every member of a religion is the same.

Here are some afterthoughts that I forgot to write.
By looking at this event from a slightly different perspective, The image I have of an event like this in historical context, is the Jew, in Germany, that walked up to Nazi office and shot him in the face. This was the event that begun the purge, disarming the jews, and rounding them up to be marched out of the country. Considering the events that have followed, I wouldn't be surprised if something similar followed. They say History doesn't repeat itself...but it rimes.

Muslims In Europe are already at they ghettoization faze. Now the locals are tired of feeding them. I pray wiser minds prevail before internment but I am not hopeful.

The Jews in Germany were a part of the society. The Jews in Germany were a part of that culture and society for many generations. Apples and oranges. The events in the Middle East are not about religion or race... they are about oil and economics. Again.. apples and oranges. Again I will say.. I have stated facts. They have not been responded to. Just more rhetoric and degrading. I am not a part of any sort of "Ultra Nationalist Cult" as you seem profess. You make allegations that I have been "giving attitude" to you and that now at least it is in the open. Pray tell what attitude? I rarely respond to your posts directly and never indirectly but somehow I become the reason for any attitude you have been getting?? Very interesting. I can clearly see that there is no room here for discussion on a factual basis. Only emotional and political responses that fit the individual's belief systems and indoctrination. C5 states "I'm pretty embarrasses to call myself a prepper at the moment." Yup..... I agree... but not for the same reasons... Mine are because as I stated the minds are closed, facts are ignored and NOT discussed....not ONE response has addressed the facts or provided rebuttal...only the rehash of beliefs put forth as reality. And of course the sermon from the pulpit and Damn those who disagree. Best of success with ALL of that.

Bloody hell. Well There goes my evenings chores and building.

First off, I acknowledge that yours was not the attitude I was talking about.

Second, people haven't been challenging "THE FACTS" because some things are self evident...and they shouldn't have to ...nor are they reading your "Facts" off of someone elses carefully crafted page page.

So, For the sake of more impressionable reader, I will waist my very valuable time and go over each point, one by one.

"MAKE NO MISTAKE. Forget your Liberal brainwashing and the crap espoused by the lamestream media. The West is AT WAR with the political ideology of Islam and things are only beginning."

First off, I am both religiously and politically agnostic all be it angry agnostic. I fully understand both the Left and the Right. Both positions are rational and correct....and totally insane, self destructive and far too late to solve any of our real world problems. But I will agree with you that the West HAS declared war on all Muslims...outside of a few pet, house sand n&&&&rs. In fact, the West is at war with just about every one else on the face of the planet, destabilising any country that might evolve naturally into a robust (Threatening) economy. The rest of the angry world would forget all about hating us If we just came home and stopped making their lives miserable.

"The more they are allowed to infiltrate and subvert our culture for their own purposes the more at risk we are".

My god. Infiltrate and subvert. Commies under the bed. I guess putting those Japanese Canadians into concentration camps really did help save us David Suzuki's nefarious jap infiltration and subversion.

" People in the West need to get their heads out of their asses and begin to see it for what it is and address it before they are overwhelmed by the over 1,000,000,000 Muslims"

Well, There are a lot of them. Probably a lot less when they run out of oil profits...Thus the Muslim saying." My father rode a camel. I ride a BMW. My son flies a jet. His son will ride a camel."

Of course there is also a lot Hindus. Lots of them. Its been almost 2 years since the last time I heard one being referred to as a Paki. My first thought was, Wow, Highschool. What about their appearance makes you think they came from Pakistan? Me, I'm not all that concerned about being out bread and a world filled with "Mud People". I guess that makes me a race traitor. Did I mention their are other Canadian groups that want me dead...including the reconstructionist that want to impose a theonomy , stoning to death ex Christians.

" In EVERY country they emigrate to they are a scourge of crime, form ghettos that make no effort to assimilate into the existing culture and become a disproportionate drain on the social welfare system"

Funny, All my Muslim relatives are Middle to Upper Middle Class families...And are far more assimilated and patriotic than I will ever be...or my farming neibours. Its one Big family with a lot of different personalities. Some are religious, some nominally by culture, others are atheist. Some of their traditions are strange to me but they remind me of Big Italian families. Wait a minute. Aren't Italians the official "SCOURGE OF CRIME". How dramatic . I must get my scourges correct. Most of the scouges where I come from Ride Harlies and conduct business in a compound. Need I mention the group? Not a lot of welfare in in my family. They have a tendency to care for there elderly and look out for each other in ways that would make conservative "Focus On The Family" Types green with envy. When I was broke and broken after my second divorce, one of them stepped up and got me a job in the company he managed. It wasn't a great job but it got me back on my feet. Even sold me his motor cycle for 400$ which I sold for the same amount after I had driven it hard to trash. Not to say their aren't unemployed Muslim immigrants. Most of them do the jobs that we refuse to do, Farm labour for example. Speaking of which, their goes my daylight. A lot of other people will be farmers soon. Its not just a job for brown people any more. Others have credentials that aren't recognised her. That why you find Doctors driving cab for less than minimum wage. Teachers doing janitorial work in the schools that wont hire them as teachers. Broken or accented English will also severely handicap your chances in competition for scarce jobs creating an almost permanent under class. I cant even speak French though I am French by ancestry. They are doing way better than me. Dirka dirka. Thank you, come again.

"BE AWARE AND TREAT THEM ACCORDINGLY"

Building a gas chamber, are we? Cheaper than mass shootings with the scarcity of ammo now days....

Back to the avoided question. Exactly which group of the billion Muslims you are worried about are about to ride over the hill strapped with explosives? All of them setting aside their differences to work in cahoots? As you said, their is a billion of them and they come from a lot of different cultures, religious traditions, races and countries...and they don't all get along very well.

"Living on the dole: Third-world immigrants - most of them Muslims from countries such as Turkey, Somalia, Pakistan, Lebanon and Iraq - constitute 5 percent of the population but consume upwards of 40 percent of the welfare spending."

Not surprising. In a faltering economy, do you give the job to Sven with the perfect Danish...or Mohamed, having trouble with the language ( Not a big pool of Danish speaking Somalis...or anywhere else in the world they might be able to use the language if they can ever save enough...to move somewhere else ), that you fear might try to blow you up. Oh yah. I forgot. They all smell funny too.

"* Engaging in crime: Muslims are only 4 percent of Denmark's 5.4 million people but make up a majority of the country's convicted rapists, an especially combustible issue given that practically all the female victims are non-Muslim. Similar, if lesser, disproportions are found in other crimes."

Once again, no big surprise. Poverty breeds crime. I expect a lot of average Joes, suddenly turning to crime, in our near future, once they have lost there jobs and are f***ed. Been their myself.

Rape. Once again, no big surprise. Too poor for a girl friend, constantly rejected and humiliated. Rape is about asserting power and is usually perpetrated by someone humiliated that feels powerless....except by our very own Privileged Fraternity brothers who have turned humiliating the week into an art form...and lets not forget our troops. Its not rally a crime when they do it...is it?

" Self-imposed isolation: Over time, as Muslim immigrants increase in numbers, they wish less to mix with the indigenous population. A recent survey finds that only 5 percent of young Muslim immigrants would readily marry a Dane"

No Shiite Sherlock. We have China Towns in most major cities here in Canada for a reason, mainly because they had to for their own safety. The Klan was harsh on Chinese Canadians back in the early days of Vancouver...and they had help from other Klan members in city council to add power to their marches. Speaking of Vancouver, I worked around ALOT of east Indians. I was surprised to see that Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus hung out together. Understand, these religions are not even remotely close. Think Southern Baptist and Confucianism. Traditional ENEMIS...but they were tolerant of each other because they understood each others culture ... And every one else was treating them like crap so they might as well be the under dogs...together.

" Importing unacceptable customs: Forced marriages - promising a newborn daughter in Denmark to a male cousin in the home country, then compelling her to marry him, sometimes on pain of death - are one problem."

Its a problem...But we had the same problem our selves until recently. Very Recently. Even my dead father was fatherless because the sperm donors mother forced them apart. Catholics and Protestants did not marry. Multi generational father absence in my line by death or religion. I believe the reconstructionists I mentioned earlier also want to return to stoning of children that wont obey their parent and have been just waiting for the State to become week. "If not by the ballet box, then by the cartridge box" I believe was the term they coined.

"Another is threats to kill Muslims who convert out of Islam. One Kurdish convert to Christianity, who went public to explain why she had changed religion, felt the need to hide her face and conceal her identity, fearing for her life"

See reconstructionists above to save time. Death listed anathamist here. One of my early survivalist teachers was cast out of the family for becoming a moderate Baptist, rejecting his Reformed Calvinist heritage. His own brother threatened to kill him and anathemad him. He made damned sure I understood the dangers of this philosophy before he was willing to teach me anything because he wasn't willing to train someone that would become one.

Here. Let me save everyone a lot of head scratching. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Reconstructionism

"Seeking Islamic law: Muslim leaders openly declare their goal of introducing Islamic law once Denmark's Muslim population grows large enough - a not-that-remote prospect. If present trends persist, one sociologist estimates, every third inhabitant of Denmark in 40 years will be Muslim"

There is always a splitter. No Muslim I know wants anything to do with Sharia. That's why they choose to live here. Once again see above.

That about covers it and my day is f###ed.

Look JAB, This isn't even a personal attack on you. I am at war with this idea...just like I opposed to skinheads in Vancouver. I don't have the ability for polite discourse on this subject.

Here is my fear. Some day, some "Militia" unit is going to show up at my group, demand a tithe of my produce for their struggle, Conscript my son or others under my care, at gun point. I'll have to look their commander in the eye, smile, say Hallelujah, wait for the opportunity... and sink my own meat cleaver into the back of his head...probably before being gunned down.

And they will call me a delusional murderous scum. A cowardly terrorist, traitor and Muslim sympathiser.

Cermnunnos5 in my previous post I said that I thought you missed the point. Now I am thoroughly convinced. Whatever point or points you were trying to make were lost in your two, oh so long, disjointed, diatribes.

In your attempt at a reply you managed to demonstrate an amazing capability to illustrate disrespect for just about every pillar of western society including our armed forces. Comments like those are not helpful and not required.

edited after reading FG post

The point of this post when it started was to express sadness at the loss of a young life, I agree with peter on this, I am so sorry that this happened..

The rest of the posts are very off-topic as far as I am concerned.

JAB comments were IMO disrespectful is so many ways, and I do NOT agree with how I read his intent or comments, none the less, he did not break the rules of the forum or the law.

C5 comments have been long and detailed and I will admit that I find some of his comments disrespectful as well, however no more then the ones that started this so called debate..

As far as I am concerned you can not allow one member to post their thoughts with freedom and then tell another they can't do the same thing.. both sides really pushed the line trying to get their points across, both sides clearly really feel strongly about the subjects being talked about..

Please folks, I am going to ask for common sense to kick in here, I would like to think that most of us on this board, already have a very good idea of where we sit in regards to what is being talked about, and this debate, or talking about it is not going to change that..

I have heard time and time again, that one of the great things about the board is that we can all get to know each other better and that means that we can make our own personal judgements in terms of who we would work with or not work with..

I have never agreed more on that statement then at this moment, sometimes there are subjects or posts or threads that come up that show a point of view of members in a very clear light, the points have been made, lets just mark those points of views in our heads and use them to our advantage in making future choices.

Respectfully Farmgal

Common sense and respect are what are essential at all times. The original post was to make everyone aware of this heinous act, that could have taken place anywhere in the world even Canada and to express that my thoughts are with the family of the poor victim.

People have different point of view and will express them you may agree with them or not. You may respond to them or not. I realise that some have difficulty formulating a response in a coherent manner. However if any response includes blatant total disrespect for our troops, the people who willingly put their life on the line to maintain our freedom, then it is totally unacceptable. It is despicable and it will not be tolerated.

The sad thing is that the innocent victim seems to have been forgotten in all this rhetoric and for that I am truly sorry.

Sadly too, common sense is hard to find these days. If you find a comment that you don't like, maybe give the thread a pass, not everyone has to agree with you all the time and maybe we just agree to disagree. Even though this quote was actually about the arms race, it should give a moment to reflect... "The Yooks wear blue clothes; the Zooks wear orange. The main dispute between the two cultures is that the Yooks eat their bread with the butter-side up, while the Zooks eat their bread with the butter-side down. " Thanks Dr. Seuss. Maybe we don't have to "win" every battle and convert anyone to our way of thinking. A person's reality and experiences dictate where they "live", another person's reality and experiences may be totally different than yours but to them it is just as valid.

As a muslim, having been a muslim for almost two years now, I know that islam is a religion of peace. I am not going to try to convince you, because I know the truth of my religion.
At the same time, I know that some people will not believe me (that islam is a religion of peace) no matter what I say.
Certainly, there are so-called muslims who are doing these crazy things which are absolutely forbidden in islam. I feel pain for the families affected by these horrible atrocities just as much as anyone else.
I joined this forum to learn about prepping. So with all said and done, I guess that's what I'll do.