Did they ?. Really this is proof ?.

And who are these Pro-Russian separatists ?. I thought that they were Russian. They speak Russian, they follow Russian traditions, they are part of the Slavic people, they have Russian parents and families and they live in former Russian territory which today is part of Ukraine. They identify themselves as Russian. Would that not make them Russian or is their feelings and wishes overruled by the International society ?. But the same feelings and wishes are recognised in other countries such as Libya, Egypt, Syria and indeed Ukraine itself... The Irony indeed...

The previews government had no problems with the Russian part of the population somehow they have managed to live in peace until someone needed an unstable Ukraine.

the fact that they admitted they did it is proof enough for me.

The rest of your post is not relevant to this thread or this forum.

prom they (if it is original) was recorded reporting that a plane had gone down, that it was civilian and that there were civilian effect strewn over. If you have heard otherwise I stand corrected. But that was all I saw on TV from that conversation. It looks like it was taken out of context and is clearly intended to give us the impression that they indeed had shot it down.

If that is okay as proof for you I have no issue with that. But your post does indicate that its fact. You have provided NO proof of that.

Lets wait and see shall we ?. Its not the first civilian airliner shot down unfortunately. I believe the US shot down the last before this one in 1988 in the Middle East. Not relevant I think you will say but lets cool our heads before we declare war on Russia over this and start yet another war without reason or evidence. Now I say that fully aware of the irony that I fully supported the invasions against Iraq and Afghanistan but I think we know today that we were mislead, lied to and used by a select few. Lets do better this time before we start throwing accusations and do things we should not do lightly.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/us-ukraine-crisis-airplane-idUSKBN0FM22N20140717

I hope that as a person prepping for various scenarios, including global issues, that you are not getting your news updates from Reuters or CNN or MSN or any one source.

While no news source can be considered 100% truthful, a variety of non-western news sources exist to inform ones opinion.

Try to get an English-language new source from: Asia , continental Europe, eastern Europe, the middle east, and maybe Latin America.

Why have the western news agencies been conspicuously quiet over the past month regarding this event? There is evidence to suggest that the Ukies shot the plane down themselves (false flag event).

OG

to me that suspicious the black box of the plane remain top secret in british laboratory
give me a good reason to keep it secret unless it false information
there are 2 scenario possible
1-plane crash accidentally and nato use this to put pressure on russian
2- nato shoot down that plane and blame russian

i d'ont understand why malaysia cannot even have acces to the black box of their own plane ... to me that TOTALLY suspicious

putin never want ukraine become part of russia its ukrainian who want join russia for many reasson ....putin only matter its crimea port for hes navy
lets remind the fact happen : they voted twice whit the highest vote participation of the history and win twice whit over 80%
then nato start mind about this so they voted a third time and pro-russia win again even the third time but sine it chaotic and become unstable

and now you have nato sending stuff to them but russia cant send help unless nato can watch what inside each box " double standard ? "
nato also violating international law on the black sea sending more than 1 ship in this zone wich is not allowed ... there was a pact to never have more than 1 nato ship on these water
also they pretending russia sent troop in ukrain but we have no image nor proof at all only speculation but nato is sending tons of troop along the russian border to flex muscle
we are being manipulated by our own governement and media dont get fooled

to me that suspicious the black box of the plane remain top secret in british laboratory
give me a good reason to keep it secret unless it false information

i d'ont understand why malaysia cannot even have acces to the black box of their own plane ..

putin never want ukraine become part of russia its ukrainian who want join russia for many reasson ....putin only matter its crimea port for hes navy
lets remind the fact happen : they voted twice whit the highest vote participation of the history and win twice whit over 80%
then nato start mind about this so they voted a third time and pro-russia win again even the third time but sine it chaotic and become unstable

and now you have nato sending stuff to them but russia cant send help unless nato can watch what inside each box " double standard ? "
nato also violating international law on the black sea sending more than 1 ship in this zone wich is not allowed ... there was a pact to never have more than 1 nato ship on these water
also they pretending russia sent troop in ukrain but we have no image nor proof at all only speculation but nato is sending tons of troop along the russian border to flex muscle
we are being manipulated by our own governement and media dont get fooled

Where are you getting all this from? It would be nice if you could post the source of all the stuff you posted above.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/17/us-ukraine-crisis-airplane-idUSKBN0FM22N20140717

I hope that as a person prepping for various scenarios, including global issues, that you are not getting your news updates from Reuters or CNN or MSN or any one source.

I have lived a good part of my life under one of the worst communism dictatorships that ever existed. I know better than most of the people here what real propaganda is. After the fall of the communism regime it got even worse as the new regime was formed by neo communists and former secret police. At least during communism everybody knew better than to believe all the BS served to us. As democracy gained traction in the mid 90s the media exploded, at least on the major cities, and it became harder to discern the truth from propaganda. And there was still lots of it, most of the people trained during communist time to use the "Power of suggestion" on the masses still had a job. I lived with it for so long that I can spot it very easily now.

While no news source can be considered 100% truthful, a variety of non-western news sources exist to inform ones opinion.

Try to get an English-language new source from: Asia , continental Europe, eastern Europe, the middle east, and maybe Latin America.

You're right, no news source can be 100% truthful and that's where personal filtering of the information comes in. You can do that using logic , common sense and knowledge of history and local culture. You can't just watch some youtube videos and pretend to be an expert on the matter just because those videos are posted by sources that oppose the west.

I do read and watch Romanian news and occasionally Ukrainian English news and Al Jazeera, but I wouldn't consider that and other eastern european sources neutral on the Ukrainian matter at least. All eastern Europe with the exception of Moldavia and Ukraine are part of EU and NATO and they joined the west for good reasons that I explained in other posts. I don't see a good reason to get the news from latin american or asian sources about a conflict that happen thousands of miles away.

In my opinion some western media outlets are still more reliable than Putin's television or Iranian state TV and such or conspiracy theory sites.

On the matter of who shot down the MH17 and my initial post with the link from reuters I really don't remember why I chose Reuters and not a different sources but I could have posted 100s of links about it. It was all over the news, from Asia to latin america and they all were saying the same thing. Here is what Al jazeera was saying:

<<<The military commander of the rebels, a Russian named Igor Strelkov, had written on his social media page at 13:37 GMT, half an hour before the last reported contact with MH17, that his forces had brought down an Antonov An-26, a turboprop transport plane of type used by Ukraine's forces, in the same area.>>

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/07/report-malaysian-jet-crashes-near-ukraine-2014717151147473508.html

This guy admitted to shooting down a plane on the russian facebook, vkontakte. His account was watched by hundreds of people, either regular people or people from media, secret services from several countries. The rebels were using vkontakte as their news agency. The image of his post was all over the internet. There's no conspiracy here, no western media propaganda, no doubt that the posting was real. Only if you didn't want to see that you couldn't see it. And there were other reasons too which I will not repeat here.
Honestly if you can't see the truth in this when it's so obvious I really pity you for what is going to happened when the hard core propaganda will start
Here is an article from Vice News on this matter:

<<<The body of evidence that Russian-backed separatists in Ukraine shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 is overwhelming. To start, separatist leaders bragged about shooting down an aircraft, then retracted their claims when they realized it was a passenger plane and not a military transport.>>>

https://news.vice.com/article/its-time-to-assign-blame-for-everything-happening-in-ukraine

And btw Vice News was one of Knuckle's favorite news source for a while when the whole Ukraine thing started. Not sure what happened lately but he's not quoting them anymore. Might be he realized that they are actually too objective or he found the Russian State (Putin) Television to be more trustful (based on the fact that they are the biggest news agency in the world, go figure)

Why have the western news agencies been conspicuously quiet over the past month regarding this event?

OG

good timing for your posting 🙂 , again this is all over the news, looks like we are going to have some development on the matter

http://rt.com/news/184592-mh17-preliminary-report-crash/

There is evidence to suggest that the Ukies shot the plane down themselves (false flag event).

Yeah, and why bother being a bit more detailed on that evidence ... maybe show some of your trusted sources in middle east

... and why bother arguing with a sheep!

The US (and its poodle allies) is the aggressor in eastern European politics. I think that the events since this original post prove that out.

People have the right to self-determination - whether that be Crimea, eastern Ukraine, Quebec, Texas, western Canada, etc.

Even if Russia is meddling/assisting "rebels", so what! The US has been doing that for years all around the globe.

My point is: its the US that has the finger on the trigger of a possible global confrontation AND if one uses multiple media sources and logic one can speculate on a likely scenario where Uncle Sam comes in 3rd place should such a war occur.

This is about prepping and survival: not about politics.

Why has Malaysia become more politically friendly with Russia since the event and rather standoffish towards the US?

OG

... and why bother arguing with a sheep! Ad hominum

The US (and its poodle allies)Ad hominum is the aggressor in eastern European politics.Evidence? I think that the events since this original post prove that out.Such as?

People have the right to self-determination - whether that be Crimea, eastern Ukraine, Quebec, Texas, western Canada, etc. non sequitur

Even if Russia is meddling/assisting "rebels", so what! The US has been doing that for years all around the globe.Appeal to popularity & begging the question

My point is: its the US that has the finger on the trigger of a possible global confrontation AND if one uses multiple media sources and logic one can speculate on a likely scenario where Uncle Sam comes in 3rd place should such a war occur. Non sequitur, and begs the question

This is about prepping and survival: not about politics. Which part?

Why has Malaysia become more politically friendly with Russia since the event and rather standoffish towards the US? Have they?

OG

... and why bother arguing with a sheep!

OG

Your debating style is worthy of a politruk. I asked you to show the evidence you said existed and you call me a sheep. This is not an attack to my character (thanks Antsy anyways), this is just an attack, period. It's bullying and it's not in the spirit of the forum.

I am going to present "Real" proof that can't be denied no matter how much others try to twist it. I am not going to try to impress you with Latin quotes to show I memorized a few words during a psychology class to astound folks at a party or such. I am not going to bully anyone as one just did while proclaiming another was using bully tactics. I think Odin was using the term sheep as a means of professing some don't pay attention and just follow the flock. Maybe he should have said those with hearing and sight impairments instead. Seems I too was just bullied by these same folks not long ago about dominating the forum, even though I present facts and ignore their name calling. For these words, I decided it was time to do other things as it seemed I was alone in my viewpoint. Turns out others seem to agree with me somewhat after all.....

Fear not. I am not going to debate issues and bicker with them as the proof below is factual and therefore beyond argument. Prom earlier pointed out that I liked and posted Vice News and that is true. A member of their crew was once taken hostage by the rebels and yet he still said nothing bad against them after his release. In fact, he still defended them as he explained that it was the west's banning the Russian language which made them deny this new regime in power. Amazing how many folks quickly forget these major details!

Yet it appears that the Vice News has now opted to play by the USA's rules so they might still be heard today and avoid being banned with all the censorship happening these days. I state this as they are now slamming Putin only these days and no longer presenting both sides(follow my thread Psychology 101 to see many such examples) .

Yes, I don't doubt that Russia is supplying soldiers to defend the east. There is a war happening just outside their border so I doubt they would ignore that as no other country would either. But Russia hasn't sent tanks and such as they'd easily be caught instantly doing so by either satellite or drone imagery. This would then be pasted all over the news by the EU as proof to their daily claims. Here is my proof of US imagery capabilities https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_w6JMFFStA ( @ time 37 minutes in). This explains that nothing get past their radar, no matter if it's night, cloudy or even a sand storm happening. The reason why we never see any real proof given of Russian equipment crossing is there is none crossing. Russia knows they can't trick such technologies and refuse to give NATO a reason to a start a war by even trying. So at least Vice News only states that which can be proven, but they now suggest that tanks were seen near the border(as if they crossed soon after). Of course there are Russian tanks along Russia's borders, but they don't cross...ever!

Now OSCE observers mentions that persons dressed as soldiers cross the border daily right under their noses. This is because they can't stop such things as many simply claim they live in Ukraine and have papers to prove these claims...maybe their fake, but this tactic seems to still work so far. Yet to date they only caught a few soldiers once who admitted they were Russian army....and that was just one time. Likely many Russian soldiers have died fighting in Ukraine. But wouldn't Canadians likely do the same is such a predicament? So this explains Russia's dirty hands in this daily conflict.

So let's now instead look at the "admitted" guilty party. Obama openly admits that the US caused the coupe almost a year later to the day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p7n-4pE3A0 . Yet somehow the media ignores this outright confession as if it never happened, even though there is so much other "REAL" proof out there which backs up this claim totally such as Victoria Newland's recorded phone call about who to put in power in Ukraine. The media instead continues with it's usual spin that Putin is to blame for all these events and somehow the majority of the people easily forget this admission.

I find it hard to believe that many seem to accept these media lies their told daily without question as to their trustworthiness. Common sense should have many asking questions before spreading such lies to others, but they opt instead to spread the given lie as gospel because they don't want to think it all the way through first. They should be asking why Putin would want such a battle on his own doorstep....would you? And why would a country like Russia want war when their economy is finally getting better after 18 years of rebuilding their own economy to become the most stable one on earth? They could simply wait until Ukraine faltered and helped them by assuming their debt. A battle on their border only brings what we have now....meaning they don't need or want this war!

It's the rest of us who are now facing this same financial crunch that Russia did, because all "Fiat + Interest" based systems inevitably fail and the peak of this cycle is long overdue. We all know that it's the US that has been invading many countries and installing their own dictators, but somehow the majority still believes that Russia is about to do so when they haven't the track record that the US does. And stating that Crimea was overthrown is an outright lie as no one even tried to stop it as they all Russians anyways. Donetsk and Lugansk would gladly join tomorrow if Russia would take them. Russia instead treads carefully as NATO would instantly pounce if they did so.

It's not hard to see that it is NATO who is pushing to start a war. It is also not hard to note why folks often mention "poking the bear", as that is exactly what is happening. Putin is far from a saint and Russia is far from the perfect society, but they are not responsible for Ukraine's present situation. How about instead you start asking the questions our media always seems to avoid asking?

• Why was the EU was so quick to promote the new regime after the coupe-de-tat even though they were obviously backing Neo-Nazi's. Seems the swastika's and SS flags should be a good first hint....

• If the Nazi's are no longer a part of their present "democracy", why were 50,000 people celebrating Bandera's birthday(leader who started the movement) in Kiev in January?

• Why did we not protest when this new power burned and killed up to 100 people at the Odessa massacre?

• If those in the east are terrorists, why haven't they ever retaliated and outright attacked the west in turn? Seems they only attack those specific folks and locations that are shelling their eastern cities.

• Why does the west proclaim that the rebels flattened Debaltsevo when these folks had held it until the west's big push in February? Proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suDUXhCptfI Takeover: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL_RBHaXgHM

• Why does the west proclaim that only 6000 have died and yet admit the Ukraine army lost over 3000 men in the Debaltsevo conflict alone? Seems they don't have to pay widows if there is now proof of them dying..

So lets now focus on what the EU and the US gets out of all this. I came across a good video which explains the assets of Ukraine. It is definitely worth the watch for those who really want to see the bigger picture. I never researched these figures but the conclusions seem real possible and answer the big question better than anyone else so far... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68RErgHOzN8

And maybe you can now round it all off with the latest about Ukraine's economy today. How bad is it really? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0uNzuH8A1c
You see, destroying a countries economy makes it easy to buy up all their assets and pennies on the dollar. And who will do all the buying?.....

Yup, I wonder how many of them in the west today wish they'd never listened to the EU's offer? Yanakovich was indeed a crook but Poroshenko has surpassed him in acts of evil by far!

I will just skip your you tube vids Knuckle. I am sure they are good and all, just as I am sure prom's are all good to. Instead I will just suggest that the missile system was composed of 3 maybe four separate systems, one maybe two mobile radar tracking systems, at least one mobile launch platform, and all coordinated by a mobile command center, all likely operating within a 15 to 20 km radius of each other. lots of EM being emitted between the mobile ground systems, with significant EM emisions being transmited directly at the target aircraft. Now with that said, I don't believe There is not so much as a single cell phone call made in this world that is not recorded by the Empire let alone the very key strokes I am making now.............

So with that said, Instantly claims were made that Russia or Russian seperatists shot down this air craft. In what must be 9 months or so not one sat pic has been given, not one record of the radar freq has been provided, not one launch command order has been played back, not one IR signature of the missle launch has been given confirming the lat and long of its launch location. I know every bit of this was recorded....(if it was taken down by a missile)

Now without the benefit of youtube, tv or any other influencing media, and without any agenda other than what common sense leads me too... I conclude Russia or the sepratist Likely did not shoot down that aircraft, as it would have been in the interest of the empire to provide such info. Just as they did when a Russian mig shot down a airliner in the 80's, Korean if I remember right, and the orders to fire from ground control to the aircraft were given, and played back by the American's after Russia first denied shooting it down.
It would not matter to me one wit if they now provided such info as I would conclude it just took this long to fabricate such info.

The US now has the largest population of prisoners in the world, dwarfing the USSR Stalin gulag system. A nation that Tortures prisoner's to death as a matter of policy while denying its so. A nation where freedom of assembly, and association is a abstract concept, never to be practiced again, where freedom of speech and due process of law is a function of if you can afford it. A state security/legal system designed to punitively crush, punish, impoverish, and imprison those who call out, challenge, expose, or otherwise draw attention to its metastised condition, while protecting,and conceiling the military, financial, corporate, and governing elites from accountability. Not one claim made by such a system would I believe anymore than I would believe a claim made by North Korea that did not have factual evidence accompany it. I am betting there must be a lot of negotiations going on, with lots of US pressure to have a conclusion reached that's inconclusive and likely contrary to the physical evidence being examined, as to who was directly responsible, thus enabling the US to continue with its narrative unchallenged.

I am stunned by one thing and one thing only in reading this thread, and that is someone who claims to be able to recognise propaganda, who claims to have been brought up in it, and able to recognise it better than anyone else would actualy use the repetition of a statement as proof of its truth!

{different sources but I could have posted 100s of links about it. It was all over the news, from Asia to latin america and they all were saying the same thing.}

When the same thing is being repeated over and over, you might want to pause and question a few things, that just might be a clue they are reading from the same script.The biggest lies are the ones repeated most, and often the loudest. I suggest physical evidence, and/or its lack of, just might lead nearer to the truth than what is just repeated over and over. WMD anyone?
My apologies in advance for the lack of youtube support for my opinion, in its place I give you a unrelated vid to watch, while not relevant to the topic of this thread interesting none the less. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqgfjXaJxV8

I am going to present "Real" proof that can't be denied no matter how much others try to twist it. I am not going to try to impress you with Latin quotes to show I memorized a few words during a psychology class to astound folks at a party or such. I am not going to bully anyone as one just did while proclaiming another was using bully tactics. I think Odin was using the term sheep as a means of professing some don't pay attention and just follow the flock. Maybe he should have said those with hearing and sight impairments instead. Seems I too was just bullied by these same folks not long ago about dominating the forum, even though I present facts and ignore their name calling. For these words, I decided it was time to do other things as it seemed I was alone in my viewpoint. Turns out others seem to agree with me somewhat after all.....

Fear not. I am not going to debate issues and bicker with them as the proof below is factual and therefore beyond argument. Prom earlier pointed out that I liked and posted Vice News and that is true. A member of their crew was once taken hostage by the rebels and yet he still said nothing bad against them after his release. In fact, he still defended them as he explained that it was the west's banning the Russian language which made them deny this new regime in power. Amazing how many folks quickly forget these major details! " Cut short from here... you get the point

Welcome back Knuckle! My only question, "So What Comes AFTER??"

... and why bother arguing with a sheep!

OG

Your debating style is worthy of a politruk. I asked you to show the evidence you said existed and you call me a sheep. This is not an attack to my character (thanks Antsy anyways), this is just an attack, period. It's bullying and it's not in the spirit of the forum.

Just to make it clear. Being called a sheep it's not the problem here, it's the context. You can call me stupid, idiot, sheep and more, if that's what you think about me, that's fine, I can live with it. But you should have some pretty good reason to do that. And don't do it to shut me up. Cause that's not nice.