Clarence, think what you said about “close all borders right now”. Imagine you are one of thousands of Canadians vacationing in the south right now and you are told, “sorry, can’t come back”.

What would your workplace do? What would your family do? What would schools or hospitals missing staff do?

The response needs to match threat. So far, it looks like proper measures are in place and we can keep things like that unless the issue worsens drastically.

I've seen many a call for travel restrictions in the past week or so in response to this. Sure, it may sound logical, but think of it this way. If you are driving along a road and come to a roadblock, do you say Oh Well and go back home? Not a chance. You find a detour around it. People who want to get a flight out of China will simply go to another country and fly out from there. In that respect, a complete travel ban into the country, including cargo shipments would be the only way. Now think of how many jobs in Canada depend on international trade or what percentage of goods are imported. A complete ban on incoming people as well as goods would likely cause a SHTF scenario that none of us really want to face. In the end, actions like that would cause way more harm than a pandemic virus could.
Industry would no longer be able to source raw materials from outside the country, food imports would come to a grinding halt. Unemployment would and desperation would both soar overnight.

Clarence, think what you said about “close all borders right now”. Imagine you are one of thousands of Canadians vacationing in the south right now and you are told, “sorry, can’t come back”.

What would your workplace do? What would your family do? What would schools or hospitals missing staff do?

The response needs to match threat. So far, it looks like proper measures are in place and we can keep things like that unless the issue worsens drastically.

I've seen many a call for travel restrictions in the past week or so in response to this. Sure, it may sound logical, but think of it this way. If you are driving along a road and come to a roadblock, do you say Oh Well and go back home? Not a chance. You find a detour around it. People who want to get a flight out of China will simply go to another country and fly out from there. In that respect, a complete travel ban into the country, including cargo shipments would be the only way. Now think of how many jobs in Canada depend on international trade or what percentage of goods are imported. A complete ban on incoming people as well as goods would likely cause a SHTF scenario that none of us really want to face. In the end, actions like that would cause way more harm than a pandemic virus could.
Industry would no longer be able to source raw materials from outside the country, food imports would come to a grinding halt. Unemployment would and desperation would both soar overnight.

Denob, I agree with a great deal you say. Going to out on a limb here 😆 and guess there are many rich, medium income people screwing off, and guess what, they are coming in on open flights right now, hello dear canada, look not sick, all good says agent after asking if Freddy has no cigarettes, stun gun or alcohol to declare. Yes indeed, same group that missed fred sweating last week is right on top of things tonight and checking for duty on alcohol

let alone the nice luxury yachts that should I have the money, I would be taking. Then I get into my nice launch when close to shore and come into the US or canada, easy to do. Brother in law picks me up in Mercedes and all good.

Or they go to Vietnam......get false passport.... yeppers. But for the love of god, at least we do something to make it harder. Right now is a joke. Do we really, really need fred Wong from China. No we do not

Now ships. Well if our army is worth anything, we should easily be able to keep the natives on board, if stretched, pull police from giving speeding ticket, forgo revenue from that for a month, forget all the fluff and actually focus on security of the nation. open containers and check for little people stashed away. Fred’s hiding inside, toss his or her ass back on the ship, no bs refugee claims, no tim3 for that crap. If not now then when? Heres the up tick to this thing. We hopefully get the idea it was dumb to rely upon an obvious enemy for anything remotely important! We learn and because we are supposedly so smart, we adapt! Awesome “teachable “ moment. Get smart and win. We can do it, IF we get smart and suck it up. Going to feel the pain, so at least make it worth while

I realize I may sound flippant but I am very serious. Grow a set, do ones job of keeping nation ( you know, actual citizens) secure, the hell with other nations feelings. Do ones job of securing the borders, it can be done IF one is serious. If canada hasn’t the means to feed themselves, wash our own cloths in machines we can make or service, produce our own fuel, power... then it’s a terrible reflection on the nation we claim to be. There will be people at Walmart....... who will not have toasters to sell but rest assured there would be other jobs that they can easily do. Does no one remember or recall stories about what we did as a nation, victory gardens, metal and rubber drives...

I am no idiot and fully realize a few things have changed but mother of pearl, there are things we can do. As preppers, we know we can and will need to adapt.

I hate these theoretical in an email formats and trying to combine so many things in such a wide range of scenarios.

What should we do if China ever declares war, say oh sorry, we need our sandals, tv’s, fridges, stoves, pots and pans more then freedom? So please come take us over, ever so sorry to upset you, just keep the cheap pots and sandals coming in! Frig that

Sorry, my priority would be the health and welfare of MY CITIZENS,not a business bottom line, feelings of some nation/ that are my actual enemies but who due to stupidly and corruption by our alleged leader taking bribes are upset. If we are worth saving, we should be able to suck it up and do what WE need to get through this. We CAN do this and come out stronger on the other side. Canadians claim to be caring people, let’s put it to test and see how strong we are. If we fail, then we become China’s Bi##h Lord help us if we can’t be who we claim to be. Let’s rock!

Ummm... I still think a measured response to a measured problem is appropriate. After a month, the number of death worldwide remains less than the number of deaths across USA and Canada’s highway on a typical long weekend. We can’t throw the baby with the bath water.

No question there’s going to be many opinions. The Monday morning quarterbacks are going to have a field day laughing or being mad at people.

As I noted in another post, intel is key and from what I see, it’s simply not there.

Was listening g to a news or commentary type this AM and he asked a doctor if surgical masks were of any value. Doc said no. Now, for perhaps a good 90% of the population they just heard no to masks. Well the radio commentators asked a dumb or half honest question. It’s true surgical masks are not all that good for viruses. Two things should have happened, the radio dude should have also asked, what about those N95 masks??? And of course, if the doctor was proactive, he would have said, yes surgical masks are not going to do the job, BUT, “I”would say an N95 would be a decent form of protection if properly fitted, put on removed etc.

Lots and lots of all over the map questions and half baked responses. As I said earlier, give it till end of next week. I am guessing it will get worse.

Here’s an example, if people in wuhan area are in trouble, is it not possible someone from there infected someone in Shanghai last week and they then travel to canada or Europe a week later? Of wait, there’s a case now in Germany where that very thing just happened LOL, LOL. Chinese parts rep in Shanghai was visited by parents from Wuhan, there didn’t know it but were infected. Chinese Rep goes to visit the mother ship in Germany and infected a German . Now was that visit needed? Of course not. Would world commerce die if sales reps from China couldn’t meet in montreal, Toronto, Edmonton...for a month or even six? No, and if China’s sales drops but we saved a hundred, five hundred, few thousand, maybe a million CANADIAN citizens lives or all the drama of hospitalization, closures of offices... would that not be worth stopping all those coming from China and other Asian countries?

But you and I are both correct when we say appropriate measures, info... different opinions for now, Here’s one thing I look at. If I locked things down as tight as I could and nothing happened / China took care of things and it all went away in a month. What would be result? China upset with canada. Who cares is my opinion. The other thing we would benefit from, is our real life ability to test our alleged counter measures. Canada would survive financially, we would learn about our supposed plans and we would have a win win. Sitting in a state of waiting, fretting and purchasing stuff “just in case” is also costly.

Another way of looking at this is. Let’s say we had sent in a few people to take out Hitler in 1938. Would that not have been better proactive measure then Hundreds of million dead and only ending it in 45. From the sounds of it, we whack people from time to time. So a little preemptive border closures and disruption of sales staff and tourists, isn’t high on my worry chart. No one is saying invade China, we tell them, hey can we help? CDC just offered and China said no.,!!! ( weird eh, China not wanting help, wonder why not, maybe there’s a clue there we should be paying attention too)

We can continue to allow their HD tv’s, flip flops, car parts, toasters and T-shirt’s in, so they continue to make money off us, just no one from their country sets a toe in canada. Don’t like it, cool, they lose as we are in a trade deficit, and again we win because they won’t be over here stealing our trade secrets. Win win as far as I am concerned. In fraud case or other investigations, one looks for motive, who is pushing for no action.... Some politicians and businesses seem more concerned about China then their citizens,

For me, I am now waiting to see what occurs. Zero confidence in our counter measures because I see so many large holes in the fence And little intelligent intel. Here’s hoping we get lucky

What intel are you looking for Clarence? The internet is plastered with CORONAVIRUS headlines, more or less all reporting the same thing. Including pictures of empty streets and Chinese officials suited up in hazmat gear. For the records, I see no points of opening the old common prepper rhetoric that "MSMs are hiding the truth!" and President Trump's own outcries of "Fake News!" whenever the message isn't popular (to him).

What masks are effective or not

Are goggles required.

What’s the time between initial contact and visible symptoms. Heard one week, two weeks. What the heck is it.

What formed the basis for the decision to not stop entry from China if as the world knows the Chinese are quarantining fifty!!! Some odd million! Not exactly a bad case of sushi poisoning, yet one allows free access to a nation

What precise measures are in place at all the airports.. to track people coming in. As of yesterday, a gov of canada person said they are having trouble contacting people on the flight the Toronto dude came in on! Can’t track people through credit card use, relatives.....pretty serious stuff and I think we have people trained to track people, yet we appear to be unable to contact them. So how can one say we are in good shape if you don’t even know where people are

State how many cases are under consideration/ suspect. Easy to get the info and state once or twice a day. That way the fake news you refer to doesn’t get traction. Easy to do if one wished to be open about the situation. I think it’s safe to say we can’t trust the fake Chinese happy happy news.

Today a person in ottawa is suspected of having it. Yet no statement on whether he or she flew in from China or if second hand. Won’t change anything but to avoid fake news, make an official statement/ credibility during a potential cris is important

State why we can’t seem to be able to figure out why we can’t evacuate citizens when other nations are? Do we need a go fund me page for gov, incompetence of officials, what exactly is the reason. Again, simple to inform people on why your not doing anything.

What medicines... are being used to help patients. Tamiflue...? Because we wish to allay fears, tell your citizens, you have ample meds, beds, nurses, ... to treat thousands or more. Tell us you have your stuff together. Right now we are getting conflicting reports on even what protections seem to work

Tell people you have a plan to pay people to stay home if asked to voluntarily self quarantine. Heck, we will have the army deliver you steak every night if you wish . That would help people stay home and not go into work a little sick and increase contamination.

In short, tell the people you have all manner of plans fully in place to handle tens of thousands of sick people. All these years after 911 and SaRs, one must surely have a plan in place for extensive loss of life or illness

State it and back it up with proof. Read my comments in the corronavirus page about how dumb we sound on simple plane evacuation. It’s dumb statements about examining options on simple tasks that make people believe fake news, rumors....

In a business situation, one would be canned if they came to the table with this absence of answers and a clear plan. Geese bob, no ones buying our product and we haven’t the a clue why not but don’t worry, stocks and income will stay up. Steve’s got it under control

Wouldn’t knock trump to fast, they stated today they are looking at closing border. Should have already happened with China but maybe we were under pressure to allow the rich or well connected out? If yanks do it, will we follow or can officials say that there’s no reason why and here it is, or will it be we are monitoring the situation, blah blah. I would have confidence in that IF they demonstrated that other things were all in place. Not a matter of national security to state we have beds for thousands and the planes to fly people to them. Should be easy thing to do for a nation like us. Seeing as we can’t manage to get enough fire bombers for fires that have been occurring since I can ember, it’s hard to believe they have facilities for thousands but call me a skeptic 😥

Anyways, I am backing out of this debate, we will simply need to see what happens in the next week or so with number of cases. People can believe we are in good shape or not. Personal decisions

What intel are you looking for Clarence? The internet is plastered with CORONAVIRUS headlines, more or less all reporting the same thing. Including pictures of empty streets and Chinese officials suited up in hazmat gear. For the records, I see no points of opening the old common prepper rhetoric that "MSMs are hiding the truth!" and President Trump's own outcries of "Fake News!" whenever the message isn't popular (to him).

this seems like a measured approach. stay informed, and dont add to the hype or rhetoric of the situation. works for me.

Clarence, you have great questions, but I would certainly not like the genuine answers the government would provide. And frankly, there is probably a lot of unknown. Investigations into “where did this guy travel and who was on his plane” (and how to contact everyone of them - and then their own entourages) is likely not something that happens by the time the 6 o clock news roll. By the time the info may be available, a celebrity dies somewhere and the media attention is turned to this.

The other point is that the government isn’t prepared! It’s reacting, at best. Paying for people to self quarantine would take money away from more important matter, like paying $25M to a former Guantanamo inmate, or removing legal firearms from legal owners... The concept that the Canadian Army could help citizens everywhere in the country is ridiculous. Canadians have decided it didn’t want an Armed Force, and decided to keep the size small, underfund it, under equip it, etc. There are what, about 60K soldiers across all Canada and maybe what, 15K militia? Of those 75,000 there are what 1000 generals and other seniors who wouldn’t be “handing out steaks” to people. How many soldiers per Sq KM or per Canadian does that leave?

Clarence, you have great questions, but I would certainly not like the genuine answers the government would provide. And frankly, there is probably a lot of unknown. Investigations into “where did this guy travel and who was on his plane” (and how to contact everyone of them - and then their own entourages) is likely not something that happens by the time the 6 o clock news roll. By the time the info may be available, a celebrity dies somewhere and the media attention is turned to this.

The other point is that the government isn’t prepared! It’s reacting, at best. Paying for people to self quarantine would take money away from more important matter, like paying $25M to a former Guantanamo inmate, or removing legal firearms from legal owners... The concept that the Canadian Army could help citizens everywhere in the country is ridiculous. Canadians have decided it didn’t want an Armed Force, and decided to keep the size small, underfund it, under equip it, etc. There are what, about 60K soldiers across all Canada and maybe what, 15K militia? Of those 75,000 there are what 1000 generals and other seniors who wouldn’t be “handing out steaks” to people. How many soldiers per Sq KM or per Canadian does that leave?

Lol. Yes we do indeed have lots of money for inmates in gitmo. lol. Lots of money for hotel bill of refuges... but none for crucial issues. Both of us understand readiness levels and expressed in sarcastic fashion is needed. I just hope people understand, the cavalry isn’t coming for them in a serious event. The average citizen gets all excited and for some reason impressed with the military showing up 3,5,10 days into some emergency and think it’s great and imagine they will get that high level of response ( lol) all the time.

No I think I have a good idea on how far up the creek we are and will be.

So this is last comment on the Netflix series segment. Crown posted the link to the Netflix series and if new, to the concept, people should watch and try and interpret or fit into their situation. The big takeaway is perhaps the scope of an emergency and thinking about what one knows about current hospital patient loads, people stacked up in hallways when there is zero emergencies going on. People then need to ask themselves, what would it look like if there were hundreds to easily tens of thousand more in a city of a million or four million! Staff will also be sick or staying home to help family members

All the best to everyone and see you in other posts.

The second episode of the Pandemic series touches on the anti vaccination movement in the USA. As people line up and travel for miles in Africa to get vaccinated and things like Measles and Whooping cough become eradicated... these infections are starting to make a come back and infect large swaths of areas in America.

Its interesting that the argument has been framed around personal rights whether to vaccinate vs. the public good. The anti vaxxer movement cites personal freedom of choice and the state shouldnt have the right to tell them what to do. Which is often an argument and isnt without merit. However the use of public schools without being vaccinated puts other kids at risk...so what should govern. Unfortunately, the Science and evidence is overwhelmingly in support of vaccinations...but that gets sidelined. I wonder how and why the anti vaxxer movement gained any traction...its like the flat earth movement, and so many other weird and odd things that seem to gain a following.

Here’s one brave new world tool in action. Hilarious but very creepy and our future?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=74&v=fuYC70jhxEY&feature=emb_logo