Seems to me that you are just doing the quoting of doctors who have published on a topic that you know little about either. You are using their results to proclaim that your opinion regarding alternative medicine is therefore justified. Most of us are quite aware that many doctors proclaim alternative medicines are hocus-pockus... so what's new!

In reality, I'd preclude you just went on a rant that I was ranting. Then in attempt to discredit my standing, you suggest that I allegedly might have been a police officer... childish at best! While most have likely concluded already that I have too much knowledge regarding the subject of law and police procedure, I'd also have to get others to lie for me as Ratt's (another forum member) served with me. Add to that that I converse with other P/O's here and they'd have likely called me on this aspect long ago otherwise. And when rereading all I'd stated, I still can't see anything to even suggest it was a rant. In fact I thought I was humble when I wrote this as it even shows why my opinion has swayed to the side of my wife's over this issue of alternative medicine.

Seems I do have some experience in the medical field, but only as an ambulance driver and that too was many years ago. It still persuaded me to consider that our medical system was the best answer to any situation. I also spent a few years working with the handicapped to again believe in our present system even more as working with caregivers daily does that to you.

None of the above gives me the right to profess that I am a learned individual regarding the chastising of our present medical system. This knowledge comes from dealing with them over topics such as Lyme disease as Canada has denied many as qualifying for help and only in the past month have they finally made a new ruling regarding this. I can go into far greater detail regarding this subject of Lyme, but then I would really be taking this thread way off topic. (and If I did, you'd finally get to hear me rant)!

Now I showed you my qualifications to justify my opinion on this subject..... lets have yours!

And the reason I post here so much is because I want this forum to succeed. There is little that one can do to help change that which I see is inevitable. I don't believe in just sitting back and do nothing! I would still like to believe that each of us can still make a difference and that many just need a push in the right direction....and so I push!

~ Knuckle ~

Haha whoa I just jumped in and gave my two cents, I wasn't commenting on what you wrote. There is such thing as a cleanse, it's called fresh raw fruit and vegetables and plenty of water.

My qualifications come from over ten years of learning about nutrition and trying every diet in the book, high protein, low protein high carb low carb, raw food diet, high fat diet, potency with regards to strength, endurance and speed. No credentials, just trial and error.

And I've met a ton of women who subscribe to that, or the "gluten free" model, while binge eating garbage, and generally just weak willed people, hopping on the latest trend because it's cool and they're too lazy to do pushups, go for a run or lift some weights.

The only guarantee is moderation. Extremist and hardline guarantees always collapse, or worse, completely backfire.

EDIT- Oh cripes, Knuckles, I thought you were talking to me, sorry.

OK all...settle down.
Let's all be civil here.
I won't get into the topic at all because I won't listen to Anna Maria Tremonte nor "The Current" as I lost all respect for her when she suggested that preppers are worried about giant claw fisted robots.

EDIT- Oh cripes, Knuckles, I thought you were talking to me, sorry.

LOL, no problem Singlecell. I too agree that women often grab hold of such trends and prey this new technique will help. And it took plenty of convincing from the wife after years of her doing her own thing with Lyme to show me that she was now more knowledgeable than most doctors. She researches daily and does forums to help those with Lyme. We have various microscopes which now do micro videos of bacteria. The wife is on first name basis with many published doctors in both Canada and the US. She has devoted herself totally to this subject for at least 5 years and so I know much about this subject just from being married to her. 🙄

I even understand where folks can be mislead by false claims of concoctions that only give them false hope. Yet now I see even this concept as maybe still giving people hope where there is not supposed to be any. So what! Which is better? False hope or no hope?

But there are lost techniques that do still work today and we should profess this knowledge as just (and free)!

Sorry Denob...was I ranting again? 😆 😎

Detox water, detox food pad, detox sticker, detox lamp, detox air filtration... etc.
I don't really mind the idea of detox, but sometimes the price and the claims are quite ridiculous.

Maybe after we use them expensive products, our p** will smells like roses. 😀

Actually we do need some illustration and data before and after detox. Not only the good part but also the bad part. For example some things may helps reduce blood pressure, but may increase some other things. Most sales people I know only focus on the benefit, and care not explaining side effects or potential signals to stop the treatment using some products. I often visit the following site for info regarding therapeutic devices:
http://www.quackwatch.org

In some countries, there are traditional concoctions to heal wounds and infections, fever. So traditional and alternative medicine can be an alternative way when modern treatment fails.

In the past during traveling, I've met a traditional health practician, and he said that to take care mainly the kidney and the liver is by drinking adequate plain water. "No much oily to consume", he said.
While next to him someone sells cobra oil that claims to cure much diseases 😀

Another problem these days is gluten-fearing mongers. Bunch of psycho's.

Good lord... I can't tell you the amount of women i've met who are on that detoxing shit. This phase disgusts me. You got all these women out there who score psychological points for starving themselves, binge eating absolute garbage, and won't touch exercise if their lives depended on it.

It's an epidemic!

Sounds like you listened to the interview. They talked about this very issue. Celebrity endorsements and impressionable women (and men) attempting "detox's" and even going under the knife to obtain "the perfect image." All kinds of untested unproven and often dangerous "alternative methods" but because they came from celebrities we are more predisposed to believe ti. He mentions your exact point. All kinds of weird "remedies" and no attention to food and nutrition or exercise.

His book he just wrote on this very topic is here:

http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/en-ca/books/is-gwyneth-paltrow-wrong-about/9780670067589-item.html

Per the interview...he has an entire Chapter called "Pamela Andersons Breasts." Its just my opinion...but I find it extremely disturbing that women will go under the knife for no medical benefit but simply to look more "beautiful." And apparently the most sought after and requested breast augmentations are the "Pamela Andersons." Hence why he dedicated an entire chapter to it....

In some countries, there are traditional concoctions to heal wounds and infections, fever. So traditional and alternative medicine can be an alternative way when modern treatment fails.

There are so many examples of local "concoctions" and traditional healing forms that have evidence and studies backing up there authenticity (and also there limitations.) And so many "concoctions" which have no evidence they work and can actually be harmful. There is no "us vs. them" though so many wish to proclaim that. If there is proof...real clinical evidence....it is incorporated into the greater body of knowledge. And the body of science does not have all the information at its finger tips and quite readily and often says "i dont know...lets investigate more."

Who would've thought leaches would have modern medical applications? How many pharmaceuticals are based off of plants, fungi, etc. from the natural world?

Main stream medicine and science welcomes those that are proven. The rest of it gets tossed to the side, left for the pseduo scientists and "believers" to use as they wish. 🙂 If you "feel" that drinking lemon juice and chewing on tin foil will detox your system....knock yourself out. To date...there is no evidence any detox works. As the Dr. says in his interview...humans have amazing built in detox systems. Organs like kidney's, liver....

I know this is extreme, but this is ultimately the dangers of such beliefs.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/01/19/makayla-sault-who-refused-chemotherapy-for-leukaemia-in-favour-of-alternative-treatments-has-died/

Good lord... I can't tell you the amount of women i've met who are on that detoxing shit. This phase disgusts me. You got all these women out there who score psychological points for starving themselves, binge eating absolute garbage, and won't touch exercise if their lives depended on it.

It's an epidemic!

Sounds like you listened to the interview. They talked about this very issue. Celebrity endorsements and impressionable women (and men) attempting "detox's" and even going under the knife to obtain "the perfect image." All kinds of untested unproven and often dangerous "alternative methods" but because they came from celebrities we are more predisposed to believe ti. He mentions your exact point. All kinds of weird "remedies" and no attention to food and nutrition or exercise.

His book he just wrote on this very topic is here:

http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/en-ca/books/is-gwyneth-paltrow-wrong-about/9780670067589-item.html

Per the interview...he has an entire Chapter called "Pamela Andersons Breasts." Its just my opinion...but I find it extremely disturbing that women will go under the knife for no medical benefit but simply to look more "beautiful." And apparently the most sought after and requested breast augmentations are the "Pamela Andersons." Hence why he dedicated an entire chapter to it....

I haven't read the interview, this is from women I've met. We go out to grab food and they barely eat a morsel due to no gluten, no meat, blah blah, I wake up in the morning and find 3/4 a loaf of bread is gone and a jar of peanut butter on the counter, it's disturbing.

I know some who claim they're alergic to most vegetables, yet they're going on a cleanse, it's like lady I can see the veins in your legs and youre in your twenties, time to get some fucking help.

Truth is though man, with the feminist mentality we got going on these day, you mention shit like that you're going to get told A) You have no idea what objectification by men women go through everyday and what it forces them to do, B) How dare you tell me what to do with my body. C) Youre a white straight male and an idiot.

Correlation vs. Causation.

A big issue today is interpreting data based on personal, cultural bias, etc. Correlation between two variables, does not necessarily mean causation. (It does not discount it either!)

"This is a post about basics. That's because I think a point needs to be made which is surprisingly not as well-known as its elementary nature would have you guess.

Correlation -in its most used version, due to Pearson- is a measure of how two quantities can be observed to be in linear dependence on one another. It is a very common quantity to report the results of scientific studies, particularly but not exclusively in the social sciences. Researchers try to evidence the presence of a correlation between two phenomena as a preliminary step to investigating whether one can be the cause of the other."

http://www.science20.com/quantum_diaries_survivor/correlation_causation_independence-98944

Reminds me to the topic of illusory correlation, where two or more seemingly correlated occurrences actually are unrelated or weakly related variables. Already forgotten those stuffs, too much skipping classes. 🙁

Correlation vs. Causation.

A big issue today is interpreting data based on personal, cultural bias, etc. Correlation between two variables, does not necessarily mean causation. (It does not discount it either!)

"This is a post about basics. That's because I think a point needs to be made which is surprisingly not as well-known as its elementary nature would have you guess.

Correlation -in its most used version, due to Pearson- is a measure of how two quantities can be observed to be in linear dependence on one another. It is a very common quantity to report the results of scientific studies, particularly but not exclusively in the social sciences. Researchers try to evidence the presence of a correlation between two phenomena as a preliminary step to investigating whether one can be the cause of the other."

http://www.science20.com/quantum_diaries_survivor/correlation_causation_independence-98944

In your opinion TCO, would you equate this graph with the fallacy "post hoc, ergo proctor hoc"? It happened after the event, ergo it happened because of the event?

The graph was a "tongue in cheek" illustration as part of the article how correlation can be misconstrued for causation. In this instance, there is no other evidence supporting a link between autism and organic food. But there is correlation for a period of time, between the two. In general, when we see an example such as this the point is more easily understood by everyone. With the evidence at hand, in my opinion...there is no event or link between the two. And there is no evidence that shows causation between the two.

There is actually research being done now (please no one jump on the band wagon yet, its in its infancy and could be confirmed or eliminated) that particular chemicals in the agriculture industry "could" be a factor in triggering some ASD. Which is exactly opposite of what the graph on autism v. organic food shows. 🙂

The idea is to challenge "bad science" and "psuedo science" where sly marketing or someones personal bias may find correlation between two variables and pursue it as a legitimate link without any further evidence. We dont just see this in the "alternative medicine and remedies" industry...but conspiracy theorists who link events together that correlate but may have no association whatsoever. The internet is strewn with it.

The author of the article is also quick to note that two variables that show correlation shouldnt be discounted either. That it deserves further investigation to see if there is causation. Correlation could be a hint at something further..yet we have to be careful making conclusions before all the research is completed. But again...the graph was an illustration on how two variables may correlate, but with no relation between the two. The graph doesnt represent anything further. 🙂

Just because its on the internet doesnt make it true... 🙂

Some helpful hints on how to detect clever marketing, and authentic information from the net:

https://uknowit.uwgb.edu/page.php?id=30276

http://mason.gmu.edu/~montecin/web-eval-sites.htm

A great example of internet myth and marketing is the fungus Chaga. It is touted in many alternative "medical" circles as a "healing and medicinal fungus for thousands of years." It is plastered all over the internet stating this. But does that make it so? Is there any proof to this end or is Chaga a victim of copy/paste from the pseudo science community and one bad website is used as a reference to sprout a new myth? Chaga is Dense in calories and definitely an "acquired taste" ....but what else? Where is the proof that it is medicinal aside from several websites copying and pasting the same thing? 🙂

https://oriveda.wordpress.com/chaga-the-facts/ Is this website authentic? Do they have references to back up their claims?