Bug In or Bug Out?

I apologize for confusing you Entropy. I didn't think my handle name was all that important or relevant to my posts. I've been using Homesteader as a label for most other things I work on, and didn't see the need to change it specifically for this site. But yes, I use Homesteader because that is what I intend to become. I don't want to bug out at all, but as it sits right now, I can't see myself buggin' in.

First off, I truly appreciate all the points you made regarding both bugging in, and buggin out. Of course I appreciate everyone's reply to this post, which is precisely why I started it. I wanted, or better yet, needed to hear other peoples views on the subject, so that I may improve my prepping plans.

Second, I've only recently begun prepping, as my introductory post states (There's no need to read it, as it is short and simple.). My immediate preparations were based on what I currently had on hand, and what was available. This revolved entirely around bugging out. After reading many of the posts on this wonderful site, I felt I may have slipped into a tunnel vision like state which prompted me to ask the question "Bug In or Bug Out?". After reading the replies, I found that there was something to be learned about bugging in, and have since then been gathering foodstuffs for long term storage, coupled with recipes using the barest of bones ingredients.

Third, I do not have a place of my own. There are two families in this household, in which I am the guest. The other family are not preppers, nor would I feel comfortable using their space for a store house. If SHTF happens, I've decided it would be better to leave so as not to add any extra burden on the other family. But I'm pretty sure they wouldn't hear of it though.

Fourth, although I'm not there yet, my family and I are in the market for a piece of land to homestead on, or even join an already established homesteading community. I wholeheartedly understand why people who are currently living on a farm, or a rural home, would choose to bug in. If I were on my homestead I would do the same. The only way I'd leave is as a cold lifeless corpse. But, I am not there yet and in my current situation bugging out seems to be my best option.

Homesteader? I sure as heck am planning on it. Bugging out? I'm planning on that too. Bugging in? The best I can do is to plan on bugging in my vehicle, or possibly one of the out buildings on the property. We've got family and friends around, sure, but I guess I'm just too proud of a man to ask for help. Of course necessity will drown out that pride in a hurry. And time, well I do have lots of time which is mostly spent on learning skills and body conditioning. I feel the skills needed for homesteading could also be used as a prepper. Like gardening, building, food preserving, and animal husbandry. All of which I work on. Minus the husbandry though, because the keeping of livestock was not part of the deal when we moved in. The outdoor survival skills are a new set that I've picked up specifically for prepping, but also because I just like that sort of thing.

And lastly, Entropy, I think it's unwise to assume that your views and ways are the more fulfilling. Everyone seeks fulfillment in their own way, and take their own paths. Just because we are neither on the same path nor going in the same direction, doesn't mean I am lost.

hey bro, i wasn't picking a fight, with the limited info i had on you, i was concerned.
it sounded like you were new to prepping, but i've met people that have been prepping a lot longer then me and have some ideas i feel are backwards, so i don't want to assume you were new either.

i only had the info in that post on you. . . so i responded to the info i saw, i wouldn't sit around and watch someone touch something hot it if thought it was a bad idea so i posted thoughts based on what i was reading.

i think you have some great ideas and i think you're on the right path, (based on the new info) and like i said it takes time, effort, and i should of had money in there as well.

my first 5 years of prepping were an uphill battle, i had a lot of books to guide me, but not a lot of help on personalizing things. i've been very lucky with the mentors and friends i've made on the way. my childhood and career have limited me in things i can do. i can only fix minor things on a car/truck/tractor etc, my plumbing skills are near 0, (or less) and my electrical knowledge is way less then i'd like it to be for the things i need to do. but while i'm learning, it's slow.

a bunch of years ago, (and usually it's the first thing new preppers get on too) is the idea of heading to the hills, or bugging out. it's a hard long road that way. i did a week long bug out near the end of february two years ago. it was a cold winter. i had more then enough for shelter, clothing and heat, but i didn't sleep (had to make sure my dog was covered and not freezing (i was grateful i didn't have kids with me) i'd get up, clean up, feed and exercise the dog, and by the time breakfast was up i didn't have the motivation to eat it. the cold and lack of sleep made food hard to get down. but i had "work" to do, and i just keeping warm would need calories.

while the exercise was fun, and educational, it changed the bug out plan a lot. one of the preppers i work with over saw the exercise and well, by the end he was glad he's not planning anything like that lol.

bugging out (even as comfortable as i was) was not glamorous, and it was nearly un-defendable. i had a dog meet me at the door of my tent one morning. he got into the over shelter and i opened the tent and bam a nose in my face. . . i didn't hear him, my dog didn't know he was there. i was glad it wasn't the bear that lives in that area. i had a truck/trailer full of gear just for that week! i had heaters, tables, stoves, even alt power and computer/Internet.

my thoughts on your current situations, would the family you live with be open to the idea of prepping? there are great ways to sell the idea to non preppers? just a thought.

i do agree you need the best bug out gear you can get, and it should be a priority in your preps, keep working on that, make the best plans you can. but also keep doing the other things you are doing, working towards that end point. over the last five years i've asked some older friends "have things ever felted this bad before", concerning world events, the answers always been "no" and each time i ask the answer stays the same. it may feel like the world is falling apart (and i think it is) but that should motivate you to work as fast and hard as you can on getting what you need set up. (again time and money) if you don't have enough of either then make your current situation as stacked in your favour as you can! put food under your bed, behind book shelves, behind DVD's where ever you have a space plant food there. if there a community garden where you live? can you start something there? (you might make some prepping friends in a similar boat as you) there are lots of options i wish i had of thought of when i was younger.

i didn't mean anything about the fulfillment, i've been in the woods, and like i said, it's fun, but it's not a nice place for a prepper:) there is a lot you can do in the woods, but it's a lot of work for a little gain. the old term used for people like us is survivalists! and while prepping is a lot of work, surviving is the goal, work smarter not harder is my goal. (which is still a heck of a lot of work)

again, i'm sorry if i came off as a dick, i didn't mean it that way, just wanted to give you my (strong ) opinion on this subject. . . i hope we can continue this conversation in a friendly way that might benefit your situation. i moved a year ago, and my preps have been unorganized for the most part, doing reno's on the house, barn, gardening, and working full time hours with as much OT as i can fit in, i can't tell you the discomfort this gave me, not having preps ready at hand, or sometimes no knowing where something is. well, it's likely similar to how you feel over your situation. so i hope you can forgive my message above, i only wanted to help.

I think one thing missed is that if you plan on bugging out then you have planned an exit a destination and a sustainable way of life. weather on your own or in a group is no matter, just the planning. where you live and what you have available will dictate what you can and cant do. bugging out is a good idea if you are in a densely populated area like my self. i have cabins in a few places available to me for bugging out and i have planned to bug out to one or all of thease locations and tried to prepair for any eventuality even to the point of having several different types of transportation from truck to atv to snowmobile and even horse back. If you plan correctly, any plan is a good one. You can list as many reasons as you can aboout why you are bugging in or out and why its right for you (witch is why this post started) but that dose not mean its right for all. to be honest all of us planning to bug out should get together and buy a good chunk of land a prep it! the more you have in on that kind of deal the cheaper it is.

I traverse the wilderness on a weekly baisis and love it, no one person cant run into the bush in november with nothing but what they have in a bag and expect to survive comfortabley Entropy, that is why if you plan on bugging out you prep accordingly. that is the lesson you should have learnd from your little adventure. Dont get into a rut doing things that others do just because the say its best. Your situation will dictate that.

I think i can only dream of being in your situation (Entropy) but at the same time i have other options. Just a quick question if i bug out to a cabin and stay there am i still bugging out? the important thing is to have a place to go when bugging out. a pre determined destination to sustain your self and whom ever is with you. setting out into the bush with a tent and some food will always be a bad idea. planning how and knowing where is the only way to bug out!

I live in Hamilton down the mountain. Living in this big city close to the water my only option is to BUG out, I dont have a place to bug out to. But with the severe earth changes that will occur. Cities are not safe and niether will any coastal or low level areas. Anyone prepping to Bug In around these areas, very well could be in for a very unpleasent suprise.

I traverse the wilderness on a weekly baisis and love it, no one person cant run into the bush in november with nothing but what they have in a bag and expect to survive comfortabley Entropy, that is why if you plan on bugging out you prep accordingly. that is the lesson you should have learnd from your little adventure. Dont get into a rut doing things that others do just because the say its best. Your situation will dictate that.

I think i can only dream of being in your situation (Entropy) but at the same time i have other options. Just a quick question if i bug out to a cabin and stay there am i still bugging out? the important thing is to have a place to go when bugging out. a predetermined destination to sustain your self and whom ever is with you. setting out into the bush with a tent and some food will always be a bad idea. planning how and knowing where is the only way to bug out!

that was my point, bugging out is a last option, and living out of a tent and a back pack is a bad idea. . .

my winter exercise was taking my extended bug out gear and putting it to the test in the winter months. this wasn't on my back by any means, part of the exercise was to start at loading the gear, (nothing pre packed, unless it was part of a kit that already packed) doing the drive (a little over 4 hours to this location) have to load and haul a heavy trailer in the winter across Ontario, (something i had never done at that point) set this up on an unprepped area (snow covered grass, i wasn't cutting down trees or hacking up bush to get there).

the set up took a number of hours the first day, and a few the next day. i had a hot shower (until the heater failed) i have alt power via solar/battery and inverter, a covered area to work, home made tables set up with shelves for the gear, it sat on a rug to keep the legs from sinking into the snow. i had a kerosene heater, made a reflector for it while i was there, had to bring all my food, water, etc. when i wasn't working on projects in my heated shelter, i was in a reclining outdoor chair relaxing with my dog on my chest lol.

i did learn a lot from the experience, somethings worked out better then i thought, others sucked, (no hot water for a shower) and frozen baby wipes are no way of keeping clean long term lol. it by no means was a camping trip, i've walked into the woods in the winter to stay, this was a test gear and the dog in fairly uncomfortable environment. it was a lot nicer then camping, but doing it long term that way wouldn't be so great either. as a group we talked about what worked, what we'd do different if i (or others) had to bug out there.

as to your question on bugging out to a cabin, is that still bugging out.
to me, yes!
i can't take al my stuff with me, even if i have most of my stuff doubled and sitting in my bug out location, i'd still be leaving my home. i'd do my best to make my new place as much a home as it could be, but being forced off you land but weather, people or a world situation is a pretty big loss.

the people that left N.O. during Katina left a lot behind and i'm sure some are still not home, and haven't fully recovered.
i prep for minimum disruption to life. if i'm forced to leave, that's a pretty big disruption (and sometimes it's unavoidable). but picking up from that point on, it still less then what i started with, until you reclaim your land and belongings, or at least recover in a new location, to me the disruption hasn't really ended. but that's just my opinion, and it won't cost you a thing. 😉

i guess the difference for me is my cabin is my home, i would rather be there then at my house in the city. Im not a food preppe per say, i have some staples built up but nothing like most on here. My wife tells me i belong in the bush i guess shes right. i guess i would be bugging in, i would just have to bug out first..LOL! that was what i was trying to say in regards to bugging out is that you need a place. you cant camp long term, unless you did it during the summer and spent your time building a cabin... i can show anyone how to with just the stuff in the bush. but to camp long term in winter in ontarios north is not a good idea. knolage is power in a bad situation like what we prep for and your adventure in the winter provided you with just that. more people should try the plans they have to see if it would really work that way you have a chance to iron out and kinks that come up.

agree 100%.

when i was a kid i never slept, that problem never really went away, i worked nights for years and could sleep during the day. i would have to set my alarm to get up. but straight nights were gone when my old boss left. now i work 3-5 nights every 6 weeks 😛

i've lived a long time with a lack of sleep. when i was in the reserves i work work nights on the wednesday night, leave for training friday evening, NOT sleep that night, usually not sleep well the saturday night. our days were 0500-2300. the one weekend i slept 20 minutes. it sucked. but being tired and cold, was beyond compare. (and i was never "cold" it was just "cold" -29C the one night. it took way more energy to do that exercise then i would of ever thought.

but to top it all off, there was NO STRESS save worrying about my dog at night. we were need a house with a fire, there was food, warmth and safety very close by. in a SHTF event, i would of needed a night watch, i'd of had my other half and the other dog with me (we have 3 more dogs now LOL) and the fact all my stuff is gone . . . plus dealing with the cold. i could see why a lot of people would give up. my exercise was a vacation compared to what others have suffered.

my house was some rich guys weekend home . . . lol, it's not a cabin, but it's a nice place a little out of the way!
in your case, i call that bugging back, because home is where the heart is.

I suffer from sleep apnea, i wake up on average 25 times a hour while sleeping so i never really sleep. I hurt my back last year and had to have surgery to have a disc removed now i cant lay down for more then 20 mins at a time with out heavey meds.. i know what its like not sleeping! On average i sleep a total of 45 mins a night, if you check my posts they are for the most part sent at all hours of the night. thats probubly the reason most of my posts seem a little crazy, no Sleep!

Holy crap, is this a prepper thing. When things are going good, I sleep two nights out of three. Usually only every second night. I've been that way for years. The only time I've never had a problem sleeping is when I was overseas. In Afghanistan I even slept through a couple of rocket attacks and only woke up when the all clear was sounded. As soon as I returned home the sleepless nights started all over again. At least I get a lot of planning done with no interruptions.
What really sucks is when I take a couple of sleeping pills washed down with a glass of whiskey and I still don't fall asleep. I guess the upside is, I've got a pretty good bug out plan.

i know a number of "us" that don't sleep. but one thing i've noticed, at least with the US preppers, they are all sci fi geeks. i'm not in to all of it. BSG, firefly, etc. i love my star trek though!

Hey, no sweat Entropy. I didn't think we came off on the wrong foot, nor did I think you were ever trying to pick a fight. Apparently it was I that came off as the one being a jerk (which was unintentional). And I would be more than happy to continue our conversation, and any other conversation we come across.

I cracked a smile when you mentioned stashing things in nooks and crannies. A great idea for sure, and if I was good about remembering where I placed something I'd surely be all over that idea. But half the time I can't even find my toothbrush..., and I never try to hide that! I purchased a used metal foot locker last year, and I've been eye-balling it to use for a food store. It's already an established piece of our furniture, so it's not like I'm increasing my 'footprint' in this house. As a matter of fact, that's just what I'll do. Now I just need to find out what foods give me the best bang for my buck, or better yet, best bang for my space. This looks like a good topic for a new post.

As far as the other family goes, to them, the word 'prepper' is a great way to start a good joke. Their preps consist of a couple of candles, a lighter they swear is in the house somewhere, and a board game. I'm quite confident they're content with where they stand. They see us, and know what we're up to, and I'll leave it up to them to make the decision on their own.

Overall, my wife and I are being low key about being preppers. At least from the standpoint of our living community. This is making it very difficult to find any local preppers. We may be the only ones in this town for all I know. But we're not trying to hide our endeavours to become homesteaders. We have spoken with many people about the cob studio we built here, and discussed many of our homesteading plans with them. They themselves may not be the homesteading type, but in a small town like this, the word can travel fast. We have recently sparked a relationship with another like minded family, and my wife and I hope this relationship will lead to something great. As of now, it's still too soon to discuss the topic of prepping.

But hey Entropy, thanks for replying to my original post. It was one of my first posts ever, and I have to say, I was a bit apprehensive. Kinda like the feeling I got as a child when I raised my hand in class to give an answer. To my relief, there were a lot of great replies, ... yours included.

i still get nervous raising my hand to answer/ask questions lol. i was at a lecture last Sunday and in front of a crowd of people i've never met, and i asked a question. my voice was about 4 octaves lower then normal lol. i think my question came out dumb sounding but i got the answer i was looking for 🙂

that's a great idea about the foot locker. a friend of mine in the US, he had these things stacked from wall to wall and up to the ceiling in his garage. he had a great set up in there, shelves that rolled, the ends of the shelves had peg board to attach tools etc too. a freezer that could fit both my freezers into. but again he had 4 near teenagers, him and his wife. he was a 6'4" 200 lbs soldier, food didn't last long in that house 🙂

but hide stuff in plain sight. on my stair well i have got this large picture that fills the wall, and lining the ledge under it, are a number of nice looking but sturdy oil lamps, they look like decoration, but they all function.

everyone that knows me knows i was in martial arts for years. . . that sword on my wall is different then the one i used to train with. . . but it doesn't stand out at all.

these aren't my ideas, i learned these from friends, and they really work great.

if you hide something some where, just make a list of what you have and where you are keeping it. just don't lose the list 🙂

i lost my list . . .again . . . i used an excel sheet to track what i have, it worked pretty good. but every once in a while that sheet would just not open. i'd go to an older back up, and update it, but it's a pain, and then i find inaccurate info on it. so i bought "food storage planner" with some playing around with the program i've got it working the way i want it too. but let me tell you, start your inventory from the start and keep it up to date. you don't want to be counting all this crap when you have a ton of it every where.

i've got 3 storage closets, one storage room, an extra bedroom which holds my books, stuff i can't fit other places (which has to be worked out soon or i may be divorced lol, i have three rooms in the uper barn filled with stuff, preps and camping, wheat, and then windows (for the green house) and plastic drums and metal drums for water and storage. . . the down stairs of the barn is waiting to have my work shop set up, it'll consist of a locked room, and many many many shelves to store i hope most if not all of the stuff in the one room above it. (i'd like the barn to be used for animals some day but it's full of my stuff (not the wife's how'd that happen?)

i'm hoping to build a pantry off the back of the house. i'd love to do it this summer, but i'm still working on jobs from last year :S

i too would like to someday be a homesteader, i just need to find the time. . . (only slept 4 hours last night, you think i could be doing something better then typing with my time lol. but i'm not allowed to use power tools or a hammer this time of night. . . (not sure why she makes so many of the rules?)

glad there are no hard feelings.
better start planning my day . . . have a good one.

The thing is I have two places I am attached to: co-owned land in Eastern Ontario, about 200 km from Toronto. There we have lots of arable land, lots of hunting potential, lots of trees, few neighbors (who are all hunters and/or farmers and/or gardeners, preppers even if they don't know the word). I also buried 300 lbs of beans and rice (waterproofed) there in the fall, and an acre-worth of veggie seeds (also waterproofed). Only thing is: amongst myself and co-owners - - no house on the land yet. Just a small cabin going up soon - and hopefully more to follow. No well yet, but, hopefully a shallow well with handpump this upcoming season. At least we can filter and purify river and pond water if need be.
Here in the city I have a similar amount of food; more seeds; a couple of rifles; SHELTER (apartment); portable wood stove (rocket stove, could use on balcony); most of my camping/survival equipment; a hatchback car (with which I could carry most of my survival supplies and food and wife if need be).
Bug in? But out? Depends on the scenario. IN a total societal collapse, I want to end up on the country property sooner rather than later, because it's more defendable, better for food, water, fuel, neighbors... but I would need to build a simple shelter of natural materials (I have read up on the topic, but haven't experimented yet).
In a status quoa world, I want to end up out there anways. First just want to save $ to build an off-grid home, bury a shipping container for storage and shelter, buy and build a greenhouse, root cellar, pick-up truck, etc.
In a slow collapse? Same-ish - stick around city as long as it's practical / before it hurts, then head out to the country once I at least have shelter there.

Oh and my wife and I have our first baby on the way (expecting in the fall), so, that would complicate an on-foot or on-bike bug-out.

Honestly I think a large part of the debate comes down to: how resilient you home is (i.e. can it be independent in terms of water? heat? food?), and city vs. country is important here; and, defense. Of course fallout, sea level rise, fires, etc. could all play a role.

Another thing to consider: if you bug-out without a specific place you're going (somewhere with food, shelter, water, etc.), you're just a refugee, and will probably go very hungry before getting lucky in a significant way.

Congrats adamandah! A new little prepper on the way.

Congrats adamandah! A new little prepper on the way.

Thank you.

My wife and I hope to be done living in the city and have moved out to the country to the land we co-own, have our own earthship / hobbit-hole built, and some perennials in the ground, by the time the kid is walking and talking, [or at least by the time they're old enough to get introduced to fishing, archery, having the job of collecting eggs from a chicken tractor, etc.]

Who knows, maybe economic circumstances will decide for us, and we'll be out there earlier [Hopefully we can bug-out by car].