Well put Henry.

Well, there's lots of Crown Land up north. And if you can "scout" a good spot now, you'll know where there are little towns or villages, etc. where you could buy or trade. You might have to travel a ways to get between the town and your camp, but then again our ancestors had trade routes, who's to say we can't go back to that?

I've always dreamed about getting some land up north and having a small homestead-type farm, with access to hunting, fishing, and fresh water & resources, and if possible, independence from utilities like power etc. In a few years, I'll be out of school and hopefully can make it happen. Being in the Niagara Region, even though we have a farm, it is still very close by to many cities, large and small, where fleeing civilian would pour out. Plus, I can still see the CN Tower from my horse's paddock, meaning any sort of a terrorist attack could affect me, along with several chemical plants nearby.

RachelM wrote "....our ancestors had trade routes, who's to say we can't go back to that?"
Why would you want to?

.....our ancestors had trade routs.... Very romantic .How many of them perished before routs established.Those were 'NORMAL times" not the scenario we are prepping for.When I decided to live the the way I live I was not saying I will I did it.I bought my bush property an every penny and every moment went into it.For our ancestors it was same life they came from trying to make it better .For most of us it would complete REVERSE. Going from easy and everything to very very hard and very very basics.It took me many years and lot of hardship to get where I am today. And today sometime I wander if I am really peppered. That why really like to get together with like minded people and exchange ideas.
Henry

Hey Lets not beat up on Rachel,
I can understand her comments and believe in a total collapse this would eventually happen as well. Will it be easy, not on your life.

I'd like to point out that we are humans, not migratory birds. So, in a SHTF situation it is pretty much impossible that any of us will be able to travel any more than a short distance away from where we were at the start of the crisis. So, you need to be equipped to survive in surroundings similar to what you currently occupy. Those of us that live in the proximity of buildings, will (in all likelyhood) occupy buildings. Those of us living in the bush will continue as such.
I don't see any scenario that would force me to live anywhere without some form of shelter. There are simply too many buildings around. Any one of them would be far better than sitting cold and wet in the woods.

My 2 cents anyway.

Depending on the scenario you may have to spend some time in the open. All you have to do is look at the lines of refugees strung out along the roads and sleeping in the fields of WW2 Europe with no shelter. Distance is relative. What would be a short distance now would be many days travel if vehicles ceased to function or roads became impassable. A building isn't the only consideration. You also need food and water. A building in the middle of barren ground is only good for the very short term. It would NOT be a viable BOL.

I am not a bush specialist by any means, but I would think finding a spot and staying put is the best option. Spend little energy doing anything past making a shelter and collecting wood.

I don't think we are beating up on anyone. There is a commercially driven suggestion that all preppers should be working towards bugging out. This has also been the theme of many of the more prepper orientated fiction novels of late. While having an evacuation plan should be a part of every preppers overall plans it should not be its focus unless you have or are preparing a BOL. If that BOL does not currently encompass the four pillars of prepping, shelter, water, food and security, with all the necessary supplies in place it is a bad plan to bug out unless you are fine with being a refugee.

As I have said before Unless your home or apartment is compromised by fire, flood or contamination you are immeasurably better off staying where you are. Unless you have the resources forget bugging out and get to know your neighbours. In a SHTF situation they will be your best hope for survival. Build this into your plan and you will have a sound plan.

For inner city dwellers security is a major concern. However by leaving your location unprepared, even though you may not have food, water or security you are giving up the last thing that you do have, shelter. In this case bugging out to crown land would be little more than a move of absolute desperation. Not a sound plan and almost certainly likely to fail. Many people think that in a SHTF situation downtown Cityville would be a distinctly unpleasant place. Rightly so but the bush is equally unpleasant and far less forgiving.

Bugging out can be a good approach as long as you already have a fully prepared and stocked BOL. Many of us just can't afford to purchase land, build a retreat and stock it. That is a fact of life. However what we all can do is make contacts with people out of town in areas that you think survival would be more likely. Get to know them. Work towards acceptance so that if the SHTF you have at least one location where you would be welcome. Not an easy task but it can be done. No one ever said that prepping was easy.

I don't think we are beating up on anyone.
Bugging out can be a good approach as long as you already have a fully prepared and stocked BOL. Many of us just can't afford to purchase land, build a retreat and stock it. That is a fact of life. However what we all can do is make contacts with people out of town in areas that you think survival would be more likely. Get to know them. Work towards acceptance so that if the SHTF you have at least one location where you would be welcome. Not an easy task but it can be done. No one ever said that prepping was easy.

where you could buy or trade. You might have to travel a ways to get between the town and your camp, but then again our ancestors had trade routes, who's to say we can't go back to that?

Sounds like a similar vein of thought, you need to re-supply or trade with others in the area. Incremental trading, from house to house or from Farmer to small down centre is a trade route. Eventually in a full out SHFT if that ever occurs, there will be trading as in the trader of old, with fully organized wagon teams and outriders with firearms. Long gone are the days of the solo traveller, wandering form region to region selling information and small wares from their backs.

Now I know I am going to offend many people (so called preparers)SORRY . Too many live in fantasy world , hoping to relive western movies and book stories they read.It sounds so beautiful I can hardly wait for disaster to happen.(I will prey for you)
Henry

Now I know I am going to offend many people (so called preparers)SORRY . Too many live in fantasy world , hoping to relive western movies and book stories they read.It sounds so beautiful I can hardly wait for disaster to happen.(I will prey for you)
Henry

not directed at your Henry, but adding to your point. . .

people have to remember that fiction is fiction! and this work requires strong willed people with opinions, experience and facts. if you feel like you are being picked on, it might just be for your own good. sometimes you have to put your ego aside and listen closely to the warnings, and opinions of others, think what they are saying thru to the end, because if they are right, it might save your life.

putting your backs up here, and writing this place, or people off as jerks might cost you or your family their lives. strong opinions might just be the ticket you need!

keep an open mind and lose the ego. . . it'll hurt less in the end.

(i speak from experince, i've been the hurt ego that was dead wrong. . .)

I think there are 2 major considerations to bugging out.
1 - have a place to go to. A small plot of land where you can build a shelter building and cache of supplies is a requirement. It will do you no good to try to live off the land for any amount of time with what you can carry on your back, in your truck, or on a bike.
2 - be able to get there. Your BOL should be within a reasonable distance. In a worst case scenario, you may have to get there on foot or bicycle, and without using the road network so make sure you can do that in the time frame that your BOB supplies allow.

Your absolute best option may be to shelter in place, basically living at your BOL before it poops in the propeller. I like the idea of being self sufficient, but for all the livestock and crops you can raise, you need to make some kind of income. Property taxes have to be paid and there are supplies and equipment you will need that you simply won't be able to grow or make yourself. If you can make this income from your property by selling produce at a local farmers market, or selling livestock to a local butcher, all the better!

Now I know I am going to offend many people (so called preparers)SORRY . Too many live in fantasy world , hoping to relive western movies and book stories they read.It sounds so beautiful I can hardly wait for disaster to happen.(I will prey for you)
Henry

Trade routes protected by armed guards, food and goods, protected by armed guards, actually that happened in the Balkins, Somalia, Hati, South Africa, Southern Africa, and a few other places.
I live in Military terms, that is what I do best. Western novels, no.. real life, what is going on now, yes.
When I see people here bashing others, I step in.. Don't like it remove me.. period.
Why say someone is wrong, and idiot or foolish, why not try to guide them kinder words, too many times I see words, foolish, fantasy world, idiot... insert other words here.

strong opinions are fine, but attacking new members is not, not saying it was too strong here, but there are too many attacks too often of late.
Guidance and difference of words, make big impressions on people. If that happened maybe we would not lose so many new people, two quit this week i notices, deleted accounts.

I also know how hard it is, how to lose everything, how to try and re-group, how to find others of like mind, how to find property with others, how to join in with others, non is easy now, wait until something really happens in a big way. I have had it happen to me now a few times, thanks for the prayers
yes good luck

let me add in, Afghanistan, Iraq and most of the other countries over there, how about some Eastern European countries as well, all have armed guards at least on their trucks, or drive in convoys with armoured vehicles or guards, western fantasy world? It is already an issue