Most appliances are pretty much crap, We have not even begun to get serious about energy conservation.Project Ultra will be the building of a complete super efficient oven, something on the scale of a toaster oven but a bit bigger. The criteria will be as follows.. done in stainless steel....big enough to bake 3 loaves of bread, bake a 12-14 inch pizza...will have a propane burner (I will custom make)....have electric burner, but able to use from 12 volts DC to 150 volt DC and 120 vac ( I expect I will have to make that too). Look smoking hot..Energy requirements..it needs to use 1/3 the electrical power of any simillar size oven, and the same for gas.
Why you ask..well energy is power...being able to do more while consuming less power whether thats gas or electricity, means more coin in your pocket, and energy reserves last longer
As with all projects, and for sure when doing something outside the box the first step is to gather data..and thats what I have been doing..started with a electric toaster oven, and am onto a gas one now.
This is a electric one, taking it apart to see how it works.
Look at that not any insulation at all no wonder it uses 1200 watts, draws 10 amps.
I added some insulation
This unit was not the best to try but I rewired it a few times and at 300 watts it was slow to climb in temperature, and peaked at 275 f or so, at 600 watts it was perfect, used half the power yet still functioned with the same performance as if it was a 1200 watt unit, all, by adding insulation and changing the wiring. I wanted better performance but I think this is as good as I can get with this unit, it gave me some data to crunch.
This propane oven turned out to be a much better candidate, how about that the system say's I cant post more than 3 attachments..hmm
Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.
To continue..this oven is a good size,
again no insulation
I fixed that
Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.
I seen the spec sheet for the regulator and it was 15 pounds, thats a high pressure regulator....It would have been needed as this thing would take a lot of propane to keep heated without insulation.
Now I set the flame near as low as it would go and I hit 350 f in 9 minutes. I then set the flame as low as it would go and seen what temp it would hold the oven at
If I set the flame any lower it would go out yet at this low level the oven was held at 270 degrees (over 35 minutes). This turned out well, this cabnet was easy to insulate all around and really improved the performance. I couldnt get the oven below 270, so I am going to do a few more things, I will block off some of the burner holes as clearly I dont need them all now, and try a low pressure regulator. I suspect this oven is going to have dramaticly low fuel consumption. Anyway I post so you can see what can be done...Hint..try and hack a crock pot, lots of fun..or a toaster, how much power do you really need?
update, just tested it for speed. With the burner turned up it took 3.5 minutes to hit 350 degrees. Doesnt look like it takes long to pre heat this oven.
update again, just lit the burner at the lowest setting and seen what temp the oven would get to from a cold start...275 F.
Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.
You have to think how crazzy it is, I have like most people a full size oven, 30 inches or so, that thing is huge, and I fire that up to bake a Pizza, what is that? a half inch thick and 12 inches round yet I am heating up what must be near 28x24x 20=13440 square inches of space, just to heat up a object not even 72 sq inches in size. That little gas oven would be roughly 15x12x8=1440 square inches. Way better..in fact all things being = we can get a estimate as to how much less power it would use... I will leave the math to you as I dont want to take all the fun..
Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.
Ha! I wasn't punked this time. When I saw the title, I went "Great. more paranoid ramblings about every dastardly act being the result of government mind control......No wait, its peppercorn......Its a trap. I will not be punked again...." LOL
Nice build you have there. Its got me thinking about a toaster oven in our house that is a real drain on our solar. Thanks for sharing.
I have a Tactical Harness and I have a Tool Belt. The Tool Belt is more Useful.
As built, most things are a huge draw on solar or grid, just that no one on the grid notices, as the supply is stiff and unlimited.
Every single thing can be improved energy wise by orders of magnitude with ease.
I will send a pm when I get a chance with a few points to consider specific to operating on solar. Insulation alone wont get you there for solar operation.
That gas one I am testing was bought at CT, on sale for 58.00 dollars right now, its junk but works, is hackable and gives me a cheap one to experiment on. I do like propane...its just so easy to use, energy dense, stores forever,cheap if used for cooking (not so if used for home heating due to the quanity), its a heavy hitter...for those who havnt a idea how long it lasts..down the road a ways is a woman using a 24 inch Danby, now there are 5 people in the place, 3 kids. She cooks all the meals on that stove, 3 plus times a day, and I am sure she must bake if not every day, every second for sure. she goes through a 100 pound tank every 3.5 months they tell me, regular as a clock. I just filled a couple more 100 pounders up in Aug for 45.00 dollars each, (i call that my rrsp) that would be a very cheap way to cook.
Before I get messages saying it cost twice that for a hundred pounder in Alberta....you need to look at how and where you buy propane. Also I dont buy my tanks either, why would I, you can get them for free, or nearly so...food for thought..YMMV
Another way to look at that would be by person per month..so 100/5=20 pounds of propane person over 3.5 months but lets just say 3 months to give us a margin of error. So 20 pounds/3 months= 6.7 pounds per person per month, but again lets round up so say 7 pounds. 7 pounds of propane per month per person for cooking, now cooking for many is more effiecient than one person so lets round up to 8 just to give us more margin. So 8 pounds of propane permonth for cooking per person sounds reasonable to me, Anyone kept track of their consumption to compare this too? in my experience this sounds about right, a lot of baking (every day)could skew that a bit. In other words that 100 pounder could last one person all year long, then if you use wood heat for 5- 6 months of winter and cook on the wood stove that can nearly double how long you can make that tank of propane last.
These are in the "ballpark" figures, what you get depends on how hard you swing...also this estimating is from a typical gas stove, using propane in a more size apropriate oven such as the one just modified will extend that range out greatly, I suspect 10 to 12 times as long (oven use on the same amount of propane)
Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.
As built, most things are a huge draw on solar or grid, just that no one on the grid notices, as the supply is stiff and unlimited.
Every single thing can be improved energy wise by orders of magnitude with ease.
I will send a pm when I get a chance with a few points to consider specific to operating on solar. Insulation alone wont get you there for solar operation.That gas one I am testing was bought at CT, on sale for 58.00 dollars right now, its junk but works, is hackable and gives me a cheap one to experiment on. I do like propane...its just so easy to use, energy dense, stores forever,cheap if used for cooking (not so if used for home heating due to the quanity), its a heavy hitter...for those who havnt a idea how long it lasts..down the road a ways is a woman using a 24 inch Danby, now there are 5 people in the place, 3 kids. She cooks all the meals on that stove, 3 plus times a day, and I am sure she must bake if not every day, every second for sure. she goes through a 100 pound tank every 3.5 months they tell me, regular as a clock. I just filled a couple more 100 pounders up in Aug for 45.00 dollars each, (i call that my rrsp) that would be a very cheap way to cook.
Before I get messages saying it cost twice that for a hundred pounder in Alberta....you need to look at how and where you buy propane. Also I dont buy my tanks either, why would I, you can get them for free, or nearly so...food for thought..YMMV
Another way to look at that would be by person per month..so 100/5=20 pounds of propane person over 3.5 months but lets just say 3 months to give us a margin of error. So 20 pounds/3 months= 6.7 pounds per person per month, but again lets round up so say 7 pounds. 7 pounds of propane per month per person for cooking, now cooking for many is more effiecient than one person so lets round up to 8 just to give us more margin. So 8 pounds of propane permonth for cooking per person sounds reasonable to me, Anyone kept track of their consumption to compare this too? in my experience this sounds about right, a lot of baking (every day)could skew that a bit. In other words that 100 pounder could last one person all year long, then if you use wood heat for 5- 6 months of winter and cook on the wood stove that can nearly double how long you can make that tank of propane last.
These are in the "ballpark" figures, what you get depends on how hard you swing...also this estimating is from a typical gas stove, using propane in a more size apropriate oven such as the one just modified will extend that range out greatly, I suspect 10 to 12 times as long (oven use on the same amount of propane)
Peppercorn,
Please pm me with the tips for off-grid efficiency as well.
Cheers,
Antsy
Needs must when the devil drives.
Would you ever consider bringing one of your projects like this out for a learning seminar? I know there is probably similar on The Google, but many people would much rather sit around a table and ask someone else questions and poke it with their fingers. These are great ideas but anything electrical intimidates many of us.
Keep these coming please!
Well, two ways to answer that, the short way first ..no.
the long answer is incase it you have missed it, is there are serious problems and I dont just mean in Alberta with those
such meet ups. Its seems there are those with interests to divide up, try to peal away groups of others for their own benifit, and that benifit can be financial, often self promotional, just from reading these types of boards its a conclusion one cant escape...I wont aid in that regard, or be used for what I suspect could be or are dissenginuine purposes...I read that last meet up thing, here last spring ? or so and it stunk to me...quite the cast of characters and machinations going on but thats just my opinion.
I think and suggest to others is to cut the legs out from under those with such intent and motives, and I am not saying you have such intent or motives... You can do that by refusing to be played...this does not preclude people learning from or aiding each other in anyway, lots of ways to do that. Just my 2 cents as a observer....
Also nothing I am doing is that unusual, anyone can do this, in fact as many of the topics, are living sustainable/ offgrid or some such thing, these things I am doing are what anyone "really" going down that path will be doing, unless ofcource they like buying lead,(thats fine too if you have the coin) and not in its fun form. I am a student, always wondering and trying things,not a instructor. I know everyone can do such things they only need to try. I just make this stuff up as I go along....Someone individualy who is really doing something...really moving forward toward such ends I will give a hand to. Those who have paid attention and taken action may get such a chance soon... (play the heavy foreshadowing music)....remember chance always favours the prepared
I will add people doing such things are all over Alberta..I trip over them every day, and doing far more interesting things than I, its not a accident that you dont see more on such boards...maybe they see the drama I describe and cant be bothered....fft
Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.