Emergency Management and Civil Protection Act

I should add....some of the items on the list I do understand and agree with.

So basically all of a person's preps may be moot point if the officials get wind of them in an emergency and come confiscate them for the good of all society.

Nice. I had sort of expected as much.

Also you may want to clarify services: anyone with first aid and anyone who is registered with the college of physicians or the college of nurses (which I am) can be conscripted during an emergency, thus leaving their family understaffed/unprotected.

However my favourite part of all that legal jargon above is the ambiguous term "emergency" set to be defined by whatever government powers that be.

To answer your question oldschool, yes it has made me rethink my preps and the government in general. I want to diversify and spread things out more. Caches? How to do this effectively... hmn..

Thanks for the info.

Yes, it absolutely makes me think about how I store things .

The idea of having a easily found "stash" and a real stash as suggested by Che is a great idea.

A few things that I think I will change based on the emergency act:

Well that is it for ideas at the moment, 1 minute to go get ready 🙁

1)I posted on the other thread initiating this one, but what are we exactly worried about? The RCMP were confiscating guns that were in the open and improperly and unsafely stored. They were not taking properly stored firearms and that wasn't even there mandate. They were going door to door looking for people..dead or alive, and for serious safety hazards. They acted no differently then if they stumbled upon anything else dangerous or illegal in the course of there duties...Would they have just turned a blind eye to a grow op? lol. I think that the RCMP were being to lenient personally and should have been laying charges against those decided its was "best practice" to leave there firearms out like that when they evacuated. The RCMP is even making arrangements to have the guns returned to there rightful owners. They just didn't want them left out in the open and unsecured. I also consider this to be more of a media show that sells newspapers than anything else. We all seem to accept Fire Men and the Fire Marshall's office and Fire Prevention Officers entering premises and don't bat an eye. They do this all under the office of the Solicitor General in the name of public and personal safety.... A bunch of RCMP are going door to door after a major catastrophe (where I'm sure a lot of those doors don't even exist anymore..) and suddenly we are concerned...

2)The concern is "the state" taking away our property in the case of an emergency. For the record I am not in favour of big government, nor a nanny state and agree that the state should not been arbitrarily taking from citizens....even though they do this regularly in the form of taxes...and punish those most successful in life by taking more from them.(but thats a different topic I guess..) But can someone tell me when this has actually occurred and how often in Canadian History that the government has taken away it's citizens property in an emergency? With the Alberta floods in mind, and the major catastrophe there, did the State take anything from the citizens there? I understand the discussion on whether your prep's are safe...but I'm just wondering what the probability is of such an event occurring. I think of the Japanese interned during WWII, under legislation specifically passed at that time. We can pull out legislation throughout Canada's framework and find all kinds of scary stuff. Even the Charter of Rights has a notwithstanding clause....and as Canadians we don't technically Own our property anyways...its by the Pleasure of Her Majesty you get the title rights to live on Her land, and Her gov't can take it back at there pleasure....So today we pull out the legislation on Emergency Measures and pick away at it...but I ask the question, for something that may be enacted a couple times in your lifespan during an emergency...is this a legitimate and probable concern? When the government takes upto 40% of your income...do they really want your stores of rice and beans on top of that too?

Thank you for being the voice of reason. As I am sure you have all noticed by now I tend to panic when shocked. Heck I panic all the time.

I appreciate you taking the time to point out what I could not see. 🙂

With respect to the fire arms confiscation in High River, Alberta I think it important to consider why those fire arms were out in the open. Why weren't they left in their gun safes in the basement? Perhaps the rising waters? What we don't know, is how many of those long guns had trigger locks? How many of those long guns were separated from their firing pins? And let's please try not to forget that they were safely stored behind locked doors before the RCMP broke those same doors down. Another question one might ask is how much time was spent collecting several hundred fire arms, cataloging them, and ultimately storing them? These long guns were collected to, "keep them from getting into the wrong hands". With the town blockaded, and residents being detained for trying to get to their homes under cover of darkness, I think those long guns did end up in the "wrong hands".

Perhaps this debacle would have played out better had the RCMP disclosed what they were up to earlier. Perhaps if the RCMP had a better reputation and spent less time in the media for one controversy after the next. As I see it, there is a problem with a police force when even the law abiding citizens are weary and distrustful of their watchmen.

Antsy,

I hear ya. But...

-The RCMP had specifically noted they took firearms that WERE NOT being stored legally. A lot of people did take there guns from the basement and brought them upstairs to avoid damage from the floods. I've heard this first hand AND it was on the news. But, if they did not store them properly or take them with them when evacuated and left them lying around... That was the issue that seems to have been lost. We are talking about firearms left openly on tables, propped up against doors, etc. NOT guns that were brought upstairs, and stored properly in some other part of the house. Again, the RCMP were finding firearms left out in the open and not stored safely. Thats it..thats all.

-We have the image of the SS knocking in doors and raiding homes and busting into places...the fact is, if you look at the destruction there wern't a lot of doors left in place....or windows, and depending on where you were...floors, walls, etc. The RCMP were not on some wierd "Big Brother" rampage going door to door using there new police state powers for evil and ill will... If we call it a "search and rescue" or a "recovery" then suddenly we get pictures in our heads of something very different than "the big bad police man tromping through my house, drinking my beer and getting into my stuff." 🙂 If you hear about it from reports first hand on the ground...suddenly the big bad police are also the same people living there, your neighbours, your friends, the guy/gal you drink beers with and bitch about the government with... 🙂

-As in all major catastrophe's, even with mandatory evacuations areas are not always completely abandoned. There are those, even with forest fires a few hundred meters away that refuse to leave and tough it out. There was a great article on CBC Radio on the psychology of the person in a major catastrophe and how people are drawn home, whether it's safe or not. Whether they even have the means to survive or not. In Montreal, the police were going door to door during the ice storm finding all kinds of different people who stayed in there homes..cold, no heat, food, water...but refused to leave because when there defense mechanisms triggered they went to the place they mentally found comfort in..even though practically it made no sense....And...no matter how much police have cordoned off an area...there are always looters. Always those who will prey on the weakness and misgivings of others. The same CBC report shows crime and violence drops significantly in major disasters, but...we always hear about the exceptions and the sad reports that do happen. It's called media...they love a good story. The latter is my concern. You have looters...you have unlocked, unsecured firearms out in the open....in houses that are virtually unprotected with doors/windows gone....Personally, I would rather my carbine fall into the hands of an RCMP officer than a looter anytime. As for the costs of cataloguing, and holding firearms...if we are talking about efficiency vs. safety and the probability of the firearms falling into the wrong hands, or a child getting at them...that is a whole different discussion.

-I hear ya about the RCMP, there controversies and problems one after the other and how they could be more open. But, so far as I've heard..there is not big underlying resentment of them or what they are doing in Alberta right now. They are doing there jobs, and working alongside the gov't, residents, and emergency management. There will always be pissed off people but there is no point trying to dramatize or make up some sort of "us vs. them" with the police in this tragedy. If anything, I'm absolutely astounded at how the whole damn province seems to be pulling together like they were a small community and helping each other out. And the Calgary Stampede is starting now isn't it? And from the photos I saw of the saddledome flooded...but still they push ahead with this!! Talk about resilience. I hope Emergency Management officials from all over Canada are watching and learning what works and what doesn't....To see how people are working TOGETHER out there...thats where I would want to be if a major disaster hit.

I'm starting this off by saying to thecrownsown that I too want to thank you for being the voice of reason. You sound like you might be the kind of person who was appreciative of the messages in the songs of Stompin' Tom Connors (RIP), especially understanding of the lines from his patriotic song "Believe in Your Country" -

"But if you don't believe your country should come before yourself
Ya can better serve your country, by living somewhere else"

Once again, thank you for your sensible posts.

.......................................................................................................

At the bottom of this post is snips in quotation from RCMP's news about the firearms, released to the media on Wednesday.

With regard to emergency procedures, I found this for Alberta:

Powers of Minister in emergency

(k) authorize the conscription of persons needed to meet an emergency.

.................................................................................................

This following quote is snips taken from an article published on Wednesday by the Globe and Mail, you can read the full article at the link:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/rcmp-returning-seized-guns-to-high-river-residents/article12973758/

RCMP returning seized guns to High River residents
Royal Canadian Mounted Police have started returning firearms that officers seized from deserted homes in flood-ravaged High River, Alta., ....... To get weapons back, owners must have photo identification and a possession acquisition licence, which permits people to have guns and buy ammunition, the RCMP said on Wednesday. If owners cannot produce the document, police can check the Canadian Police Information Centre computer to confirm that they have one. If an owner has the licence, police can also give weapons to a friend or relative to store....... The Mounties said officers took “a few hundred” guns from homes where fleeing owners had removed them from basements and left them out to prevent damage as water spread throughout much of High River. Police explained that they did not want weapons to be stolen. They pledged to store them safely and give them back when residents could put them away at home again...... However, owners complained that their property was being confiscated while they were barred from returning to the badly damaged town....... On Wednesday, the Mounties said many residents expressed appreciation that their weapons were protected, and others opted to leave them at the High River detachment while they get their homes cleaned up and rebuilt.

The public response to the seizure of fire arms was entirely appropriate. Notwithstanding the suspension of civil liberties during an emergency, it is important to take a stand for personal and property rights and to always question authority.

“Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”

― Mark Twain

Antsy,

Amen to that. I don't think anyone who embraces freedom would disagree. Everyone has there right to have there voices heard, and they have the right to challenge and disagree with the state. Thats the beauty of living in a free country.

My personal opinion...I think the 50 people protesting on the picket line are the same type of loud mouths that would be the first to complain and yell if the state had let them into the town without checking if it was safe, and if one of them was injured The same "how could the gov't allow this? They should've known it was unsafe yet they allowed the public in!" So out of 13 000 people, 50 were challenging the RCMP lines...meh. Its' there right. If out of those 50 some of them were upset the RCMP took firearms illegaly stored..I feel about as much sympathy as for the city slicker who goes 150km/hr down the 401 and says "whats the problem with that?" when they take away his car....

Its simple..lock up your guns...properly..legally. We all took the course, no different than a drivers license or anything else.

I really want to be able to trust my government - at any level - but won't and don't. They give me ZERO cause to.

We haven't seen all instances of said illegally stored firearms. They could have shown only the most blatant cases, and yeah I would agree it would be in the best interests of the public for them to remove them in those cases. But how many of the firearms were in closets or other non completely obvious places? We can't know and we won't be told.

I'll be the first to admit there are publical service minded people in our institutions. And I want to be proud and grateful that those people are there and doing things in all our best interests. I really do. But they are overshadowed by the self-serving ones that do things for themselves, or are corrupt. The good ones may never engage in these activities, but they don't turn out the ones that do either.

In a perfect world, I could teach my kids that the police or politician is there to make their life better and they should give them all the respect they deserve. But I can't. I should be able to teach them to listen to and do what the government asks of them, but I can't.

All I've seen is self serving fools who piss away resources they don't actually have to worry about providing. I see secretive and suspicious actions taken, when their shouldn't be. I see so called leaders that can't make a decision about anything they are supposed to be without asking someone else and being overcharged for it. I see police officers that are very quick to take overtime, but are usually sitting in some parking lot drinking coffee in order to get it. And I see police officers that think they are king shit to everybody on duty...they demand and intimidate, not serve and protect. And their protected for it, unless they are caught red-handed, and then they are suspended WITH PAY.
We shouldn't teach our kids to trust that. We shouldn't even be teaching our kids to respect that. I know the family members I have that died in wars wouldn't have fought if they thought that was what they were going to fight for.

Frankly, I think a firearms safety course is perfectly fine. It's common sense and there's a real lack of it in many cases with a large portion of people. But there should have never been licensing. And comparing a firearms license to a drivers license isn't anywhere near the same...because obtaining a driver's license has never been as intrusive and intense a process as obtaining the current firearms license. Nobody I know ever got a background check and previous partner contacts to see if you should be behind the wheel, nor does the RCMP ever contact anyone to see if your on some kind of medication before your allowed to drive. Cars kill more people and far more often then guns are killing people.

You have to ask, why just in High River and NOT in Calgary, or any other small town that was flooded. Or is this going to be a systematic event, rotating through different communities But NOT cities. Then the RCMP say you must show proof of ownership to get back the rifles that was seized. OK, how many of you still have the receipt of your rifle, or proof of hand down from your parent. Did the RCMP write down the serial # of the weapons that they took and from which location. From what I had seen from one of the videos, they had a list, and were checking their notes before picking the residence to "Investigate".

On the point of City Police, the ones here in London, I respect but, I don't envy. Why?, because the City council will not back them when there is an issue, the police are very weary of what they do, because of the support that City Hall does NOT give Them. They are afraid of personal lawsuits now, and cannot protect anymore, just respond to crimes that have happened. 👿