IMO, Knowing what someones capable of is half the battle, If someone is lazy and just thinks everything should be handed to them(more or less) and they dont feel they should have to help to be helped, i have no pitty for them.
I work alot! and what little free time i do have is split between family (wife and kid) and everything else (prepping, hunting trapping fishing ect....) There isnt enough hours in the day to do everything yourself i totally get that! Group survival will probably be easiest, however if you have a person as mentioned above that was let in to the group....what would you do ? I know if i was part of a group and i saw someone that wasnt contributing very much or even at all i think there'd be some very serious words said! but what do you do? everyones attached to them by now because there already in your group.
Your chain (group) is only as strong as your weakest link (person), one person can hinder many in lots of ways, morale being the first that comes to mind along with others, i honestly dont know what id do in that situation but maybe its best not to put yourself in that situation. Gauging people is hard i know, but no one needs to know everthing about your lifestyle, sure its fine to label yourself a prepper and have everything you need and maybe extra but no one else needs to know that but select few, your preps shouldnt be shown off unless that person is with you all the way regardless of what they show up with.
As C5 said it is hard to communicate via text, sometimes you just come off the wrong way not meaning to.
These are just thoughts and oppinions.I will say this though,if we were in really rough times and If i knew someone was a hard worker and was knowledgeable i wouldnt see them as a hinderence or a mouth to feed, and wouldnt turn them away, that person may just save my life!

Your totally right, that person may just save your life. It will be a hard choice to let someone in to your small circle or to turn them away. If their not contributing go they must. Group dynamics can be just as time consuming then the work of attaining and storing food and necessities. They can cause unbearable stress but it is just one of those things that has to be accepted when in a group. I wonder how I'll do often when looking at scenarios where a group is exposed to high stress situations constantly in an indeterminate period.

Plainolme,

Regarding your slacker. In a post-SHTF scenario, you would have possibly two ways to approach this situation. Democratic - a full group meeting is called and the slacker is front and centre. A vote is held. Slacker is given this one warning to begin to be useful if not execution or banishment. Now in this post-SHTF world banishment would be a Opsec nightmare as the slacker would quickly trade his knowledge of your camp to the first group with the manpower to invade the camp.

In an autocratic solution. The enforcer of the group would lay a beating on the slacker to get his attention. That would be the warning. As the slacker is crying himself to sleep, the enforcer would drop by and whisper if you don't get your shit together and become a member of this community you will be the next meal fed to the attack dogs.

You have to evaluate every person you allow into your camp. Once in, they are in. You cannot risk letting them spill their knowledge about your location, manpower, supplies, arms and defences. Yes, you must trust and build a strong a team; but you also must know the Opsec concerns. And yes, balance the two.

Strong teams come from teamwork, common purpose and solid leadership.

Just some thoughts to keep you warm on a winter's night,

Mountainman.

Stress in a SHTF situtation is a very real concern. I think someone that may be "lazy" now could be someone better at dealing with stress and there for a possible asset to the group. Something that I had not considered until the last few posts.

In my younger days (over 20 yes ago) I had a heck of a rough time of it. Living out of my car, couch surfing when I could, abusive relationship. Took years to get out of it. I managed to do so for 15 years. Since I have had to start over again, stress has just about killed me. I was surprised at how comfortable I was in my old life and how stressed I am living like I am now. The stress got so bad I had a mental melt down. It does not help with my mom being sick. The lovely doctors, co-workers, friends and family have all said it's a wonder I can even function with what has gone on in my life the last few years. Not sure I would be as far as I am now without this group for support.

Back to the original question about what to do with a non prepper. Possible stress relief should be added to "skills". They may be a drain on your food but maybe they will be the moral support you need when things get bad.

Just my 2 cents after considering the previous posts.

Thanks Oldschool. Thats the first truely honest thing said so far. Lets talk about our personal frailty...or the personal frailty we may experience in the future. If the shtf you should expect that your best prepper buddy crashes....or YOU...or your child...or your wife. PTSD sucks. Perhaps billy Rig Pig watched his buddies burn and cant step back on the rig. Should he be beaten for this? theatened with Murder? Actualy Murdered by self style police man? Prepper paranoia is damned well justified in this situation. Lord of the flies and all.
Again I say..."Bull Shit"
When I talked about that Ethos...And living well? I had a group of people over tonight that many would consider "Misfit toys" in the spirit of the season. If you get past the "Misfit" part, they were all amaisingly compotent and truely usefull friends. Only one other was a prepper.(If I can get past my self pride, Us preppers were really the least compotent in the room) I was the only person in that room that was capable of unspeakable deeds. My personal thought was...." A Knight champions the weak".
Hell, I may need them to champion me some day...When I am weak.......again.

This is a typical response to others stating their opinion in a group atmosphere. No one knows how others will respond/lead/'follow/hinder in very stressful situations. It's easy to sit back and theorize on the outcome. Alot of us have had rough pasts, some more than others. The fact that it is so important that your point is supported or justified means really nothing as long as the scenarios are only a hypothesis. What is really important or noteworthy is that you first turtle on your opinion then when someone you feel supports it you step up again. If you feel that strongly about an issue support it all the way through. I think personally that it would only be a very limited few that would be allowed to enter into a group that I would be apart of and the rest would just have to disappear. Mind you I've had a few glasses of wine. There is nothing worse for morale or team dynamics then someone who will not stand fast for what they believe. Again you so quickly accuse others. I am as sane as the next man in this messed up world. I just don't think that alot of people "get" what the reality will be like and their moment of realization will be a little too late. Their is only a very few that will survive for over a long period of time if SHTF and just because they are willing to do what needs to be done for the sake of the group. Yeah call me an extremist or out to lunch if you must. Doesn't matter to me. I just know that my family and those in my group will not go hungry or without because of someone else. It will be a very hostile time. Some people will want what you have, some people will want and give nothing in return, some will just be violent. Your wife has a degree in sociology, I'm sure she can tell you about human nature. Maybe I'm just a bit paranoid due to my work enviroment, who knows but I will survive longer due to the paranoia. Remember the Donner party. the lines will become blurred, belief systems will be out the window. Moral Principles will fall to the wayside. Survival is a very seducing and primal motivator. I'd love to sit and have a coffee with you and b.s. I think it would be a learning moment, maybe even for both of us.

Thanks Oldschool. Thats the first truely honest thing said so far. Lets talk about our personal frailty...or the personal frailty we may experience in the future. If the shtf you should expect that your best prepper buddy crashes....or YOU...or your child...or your wife. PTSD sucks. Perhaps billy Rig Pig watched his buddies burn and cant step back on the rig. Should he be beaten for this? theatened with Murder? Actualy Murdered by self style police man? Prepper paranoia is damned well justified in this situation. Lord of the flies and all.
Again I say..."Bull Shit"
When I talked about that Ethos...And living well? I had a group of people over tonight that many would consider "Misfit toys" in the spirit of the season. If you get past the "Misfit" part, they were all amaisingly compotent and truely usefull friends. Only one other was a prepper.(If I can get past my self pride, Us preppers were really the least compotent in the room) I was the only person in that room that was capable of unspeakable deeds. My personal thought was...." A Knight champions the weak".
Hell, I may need them to champion me some day...When I am weak.......again.

Thank you.
I guess based on JimyB's comments I did not explain myself well. Some times what I want to say and how people hear what I post are not always the same thing. So I will try again.

It took me a long time to get up the nerve to leave my hubby. I walked away and left behind my house, my gardens, everything that I worked for over the course of 15 years. My thought was that I pulled myself out of nothing once that I could do it again. I am doing it again but it has taken an emotional toll in a be way. I keep hearing from people, at least before my break down, that I am the strongest person that they know. That they could never imagine doing what I have done, dealing with what I have had to deal with. Besides the loss of everything that I worked so hard for, I have had to deal with gas leaks, a few small explosions due to the gas leak, a house fire, my basement flooding, the paint peeling off every surface of my house, almost loosing 2 of my cats from eating the paint chips/flakes, my utilities turned off, being the primary care giver to my mom that has stage 4 lung cancer, part of my kitchen wall falling down, and the list goes on. Each thing taken one at a time would have been easy enough to deal with. Having all of those things happen in a short period of time pushed me over the edge. It didn't help I was trying to deal with it while working a 60 hour a week job.

My point is that I believed I was strong enough to deal with all of this by myself and discovered I was wrong. (hence the breakdown). I was surprised that I hate having to start over. Logically it should not have been a big deal. I had done it before. Money is so tight right now that when I see a non-prepper buying things that I can not afford it brings me down and makes me angry/jealous. I prep as I can but can not help thinking that should one of those people that can't be bothered to prep, that spends money on getting their nails done or going to the show or buying a Timmie's coffee when it would be cheaper to make one at home or and the list goes on, that when the SHTF they are on their own. Part of that thinking process is wrong. It is based on jealousy or "the need to punish" those that laugh at me for prepping while they spend their money on "stupid" things rather then prepping.

I have come to realize in part due to this thread that having prepping skills is not enough. You need someone in your group to lighten the emotional load. (waving cause I know what you are thinking while your read this). I have started to prep for a couple of people that are not doing do so as I know the emotional load of the SHTF will be more then I can take. Then again, since I have managed so far with all the world has thrown at me, maybe its life's way of prepping me mentally. I could never would have imagined 5 years ago that starting over would be a be deal.

Just don't cut someone out because they are not preppers. Until you have had your world taken away in the last little while, or you are walking the walk of being fully off the grid and on your own, you really have no idea how you will react. Time for a reality check for those that think just because they prep they will be ok. The mental part is just as important as the physical part.

Im going to make this my last post on the subject. I really do have a life that I take time out of to respond. I just stumbled on this vid by Brooklynprepper and it put a smile on my face when he mirrored my "BS". Its on prepper responsibility. Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQE6QgBl2_s

Perhaps billy Rig Pig watched his buddies burn and cant step back on the rig. Should he be beaten for this? theatened with Murder? Actualy Murdered by self style police man? Prepper paranoia is damned well justified in this situation. Lord of the flies and all.
Again I say..."Bull Shit"

C5,

I would like to clarify my post in light of the changing parameters of this thread.

First we were talking about a "lazy" addition to a group in a post-SHTF environment. Lazy as in a non-contributor to the group. A consumer of resources not a helper, not a provider, nor a benefit to the group.

Now that I have clearly defined what lazy is, let's explore the new information that has been added to the thread.

1) A person who by their very character provide stress relief and mental health harmony to the group.

2) A person suffering from PTSD.

In the first instance this person is contributing to the overall wellbeing of the group. Not everyone will be suited or skilled to plow fields or perform patrols outside the boundries of the group camp nor be the group medic. This person, although, not as physical engaged in the camp activites - is still contributing to the group's health. Not lazy.

In the second instance the person has suffered a severe mental trauma. Without proper care this casualty will never return to their "normal" self. In a post-SHTF environment, "normal" may never return for anyone. Mental health casualties, especially from traumatic experience can take years to heal. This person is not lazy. They are trying to heal.

My response was how in a post-SHTF environment would a group resolve a lazy, non-contributing member. I also provided the rationale that when society has reverted to a tribal type existance that allowing that person to leave your tribe was an invitation for destruction of the tribe by others out there who will do anything to gain control of what you have.

I would like to embrance the utopian belief that a commune farm in the middle of nowhere can live in harmony with nature, grow crops, develop farm land, rebuild a community and as they cause no harm to others that they deserve to be left in peace. Unfortunately, I have seen animal man and what he will do to his enemies and his neighbours. Paranoia, maybe.

This has been a very good topic to explore and to see what options are available. As each of us have had different experiences - good and bad, we each have a slightly different approach to solving the challenges that may be faced in a post-SHTF environment. And by exploring these now, we develop a broad selection of solution sets IF we are ever in a situation that we have been discussing.

Oldschool,

You are doing good! YOU keep getting challenged and you keep on going! The mental toughness black belt of a true survivor! Each of us are given some challenges that we must overcome in our journey in this life. From outside, you sound like you have more than your fair share, but I and anyone else, does not know what your life has to be prepared for and these challenges may be the building blocks to get you ready for that time. As for the sheeple, they will have to do what they feel is right for themselves, for their path in this life is also different from yours or mine. We can offer to teach them, but if they refuse - then we have to wait for the students to come to the teachers. We can have charity ready or we can have lessons ready to teach so they can care for themselves.

Cheers,

Mountainman.

I think many of us, after being told we are paranoid and crazy by others, are told our home would be considered the safe haven.
By the time things get so bad someone comes to my house, I tell them I will be long gone, as I do not live in a very suitable long term bug-in area.
The extent of my moral obligation is to assist them in starting their own preps, make sure they don't make the same mistakes I did early on, and help them decide which direction they want to take their preps, and who they are prepping for.

I am always reluctant to bring them into my plans immediately, until I am confident they have a certain level of commitment, and even then like to hold a few cards back from the table.
While it is nice to theorize how we will all act in a SHTF scenario, I still feel it is important for everyone to be accountable to themselves, and be willing to cut ties or go your own way when decision time comes.
Perhaps you have a group that has a plan, but some in that group are overcome by their emotion/morals when others who did not prepare come to them for help, and want to take in others. This can put your entire group at risk, not only in bringing in people and motives you are unfamiliar with, as well as the possibility of being overextended.

Help those who help themselves.

Im going to make this my last post on the subject. I really do have a life that I take time out of to respond. I just stumbled on this vid by Brooklynprepper and it put a smile on my face when he mirrored my "BS". Its on prepper responsibility. Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQE6QgBl2_s

C5,

Watched the video. I have not taken the time or effort to find the video that from yankeeprepper that set Brooklyn Prepper on the tirade. But his (Brooklyn Prepper) message is clear enough, you reap what you sow. So, if you project positive aspects of prepping you will encounter positve preps. If you project negative aspects of prepping you will have to face and endure the same. Point made.

Mountainman.

In God we Trust, all others, put your weapons down and your hands up.

Moral obligations? l think in such situations, morals a luxury.

As for imaginary friends, they wont keep you warm or fed.

Couldn't have said it better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWRfWr65rlg