When it hits the fan is the first problem we have to figure out. An EMP zapping the Grid is a no-brainer. But look at history, the descent into tyranny be the Germans was gradual. Read any news from Amerika lately? So what is the Trigger Point (our term) for the Group's Bug Out if it's a gradual descent?
Not having scouted out a location by now is a bit of a booboo. You better get on it. It doesn't matter if you don't have the right to be on that land. Don't set up neon signs advertising you're doing just fine and if the owner does find you there, trade with them. Start setting up the caches last year.
Bugging out or bugging in are the two options. If you're rural well, obviously you're not bugging out. So leran how to make your place more defensible and/or decrpit looking. If people pass it by because it looks lik rat's nest, great! If you live in a city You should bug out. That is the common wisdom. Most people are not going to be aware of anything until they interrupt the play-offs to tell them how much shit they are in. The majority will be told that helpis onit's way, justsit tight, Ottawa's got things in hand. (BWAHAHAHAHAHA) They will die or be predated upon in situ. We all know the list of reasons why cities are not going to be good places to be in after SHTF. IF you must stay for an elder or child make preparation now to camoflage your house. If you've got a nice house with a generator and flash it up a week after the power goes down, expect company.
If you plan on surviving a winter in North Western Ontario/Manitoba/Stupid cold region make sure your particulars are in a Mason Jar for when your body thaws out and it is eventually found.
And if you don't know about hammocks and tent flies by now you're not paying attention. Keep using tents. Makes it easy to find you.

Ranger2012 the start signal will be very loud and we wiull all noitice it! we will probubly come on here to say good bye and give out our locations for trade and help if nessesary. Mokonotora I have had this bug out location for 10 years, it has 3 homes 2 shops and a 90 000sf storage building and other out building that can be used for living quorters, the property is on a remote lake 12.9ks off a 2 lane hwy and you have to cross a one lane dame to get in! i am fixing up the oldest of the 3 homes as living quortes for myself and a friend. i didnt want to explain all of this but here you go.

Pay very close attention to what is going on south of us, they will fire a missel or we will all go broke soon and that will be it. WWIII or economic melt down and revolt. that or an emp from the sun but that is remote but i have planned for it. buging out is the only option for most of us and staying ahead of the masses is a must! and if you own a tent toss it out as soon as shtf so your not tempted there are lots of milspec stuff you can get chgeap and will blend into the enviroment. Stay worm and dry! If you have kids spend the summer hiking and do a couple rustic camping trips just so thay have the experience in memory. if you travel to your bug out location take a different route every time just so you know. The best advise i can give is if you dont have a bug out location stay home! look like every one else! no generator and no lights, if yiou have a fire place only use it late at night and make you food then as well. One thing i know is when you come out of the bush from a mointh long treck you can smell food cooking for a mile out! No one can live in the woods in a tent. you cant carry enough and you wont get far so stay home and dig in, long term wait for spring and head out late at night, no roads and no lights. once you think you have gone far enough north go twice that distence and your almost there!

We all seem to make a bug out situation into some sort of fantisy like senario but it wont be, you will leave friends and family behind so you can save your imediate family. some people in you groupe wont make it and nothing goes as planed. it wont be anything like you think it will.

Wild E and I know what you are talking about because both of us are ex-military and have been through a lot of false starts. Wild E does have the edge on me because he have everything he needs in a BOV. I do have a BOL with a friend, he has a house on the Bruce Pen. Not the ideal place but better than close to London central. Although he is not a preper, we have an arrangement.

I'm hoping that soon I'll be in a position to quit my job and move out to the cabin/retreat. I have a shop to build and about a weeks worth of work to finish on the cabin and I'm outa here. If TSHTF before that's done, then I have decided on certain indicators for various situations that I will use as my signal to bug out. I will send an email to all of the members of my group (a "no duff"). If at all possible the nearby members will be given 24 hours to meet at my house for the trip out to the retreat. Other members who live further away already have a convoy route mapped out and tried, along with alternates. If there's no time for a 24 hour warning then everyone knows they're on their own and have to make it the best they can.
With my military training and experience, I know that I could walk the route in 5 days and hardly break a sweat. With a group I've estimated up to twice that long and everybody in the group knows to be prepared for a ten day walk. I know that a plan only works up until the battle starts, so I've spent a lot of time going over scenarios to minimize screw ups. Hopefully, all or most of the group makes it.

Damn, in some ways I do miss the military life, until I think of all the SNAFU`s that were cause by inexperienced officers. Be green, has a different meaning for us few, `Lean, Mean and Green`

I live in the norther and I bugged out 12 years ago..and let me tell you it is nothing like everyone talks about...oh hey I am going to just bug out up north and go live off the woods..plttttt I say...

First of all if you are going to bug out to a small town in the north and it is not going to work..first you have to make your way up here..ok great you start out in your car with its full tank of gas and its loaded to the hilt with your gear...how do you re-fill the a tank,gas stations might be closed or there will be a limit on the amount of gas you can buy...you will stick out like a sore thumb with all your gear strapped to the roof of the car and all that extra weight well it will take more gas...realize its not just you leaving dodge there will thousands of others with the same mind set as you heading on the highways...

and after the first tank of gas and half struggles to get up here do you really think that the towns people will greet you with opened arms or shot guns...yea never thought of that one did you...

oh great you think you can stretch out on crown land as the law states you can stay up to 30 days in one spot for free,but after that 30 days you have to move your trailer(equipment at least lets say 50 feet)..add to your pocket of knowledge about crown land..a lot of it is leased yearly to the trappers...and they are ready for most everything..they know the lay of their land, they have to in order to set the traps and snares and they will not want you and thousands of others poaching on their leased lands..if you are a city slicker and have never been in the vast northern woods you are in for an awaking and fast...

I cannot say this enough bugging out to the north to an unknown uncharted area is instant suicide...it has taken me 12 years up here and a lot of time learning all that I can about the area and the mentality of most people...

you may find like minded people along the way,but more then likely you will meet of with the gangs that have not prepared and they will take everything you own...and once you do make somewhere the highways will more then likely be shut down and there are not any back roads to get where I live in the north..one highway in and one highway out...

my end thoughts on this,if you plan on bugging out you best do it way before SHTF...unless you have alphabet soup behind your name you will hit a brick wall when you go to a smaller town,its the mentality of self preservation when it comes to jobs and the space available...

I,m just saying so you know what you are up against the moment you jump in your vehicle and start to drive...even if you have 60 jerry cans of gas strapped to your car, there be thousands of others doing the same thing you are and not all will make it...

I would think any small town would "circle the wagons" in the event of SHTF

Yeah..I agree with Oldschool. The main thing I've noticed is the willingness of the locals to help someone in need - our area was hit by severe flooding (twice) last year and quite a few people lost everything to contaminated floodwaters (raw sewerage mixed in with the flooding)! Within hours of these floods hitting, people were evacuated from their homes (most had just enough time to get their animals but nothing else...no BOB) and the people who couldn't get out of town to go to work were fronting up at the community centres helping to hand out essential items to these people and feeding them and their animals. I was lucky enough not to be adversely affected by the flooding so I helped where I could (I'm a pet owner so I fronted up with extra animal food). We need to be wary of how much people know about us, but I think we need to also realise that there are some decent people out there.

My bol is in a small town with less then 1500 ppl. If you show up there and we dont know you.... your in trouble! you wont make it to my neck of the woods you can trust that. Entrophy talked about geting to know the people if you plan to form a group but you have to realise that you will have to rely on the people around you. you need to be known and know people in your area that you are bugging out to. i dont care who you are or what you think you know if your heading for the hills and no one knows you, you will die and anyone with you will also. Forming relationships in the area you are going is one of the most important things you can do. my hole family lives in my town and we know everyone. you would need that to survive. being a lone wolf will get you killed!

One thing that really bothers me is in a shtf situation, like a long term thing years to decades long we all including my self act like we would take care of our selfs and those with us and the rest can FO. If something like this happens dont you want our society to be better... we ignore eachother and help no one now and we all complain about how bad it is in the city because of it, i stoped to ask a guy directions in toronto on duffren street and he told me to fo, and i was very polite! treating eachouther like that in a shtf situation would only perpetuate that mind set, helping others is what we would really need to do to try to change they way our society would develope in the aftermath. im not saying envite eveyone in and feed them, hand the one of you guns or a survival knife and show them everything you know but at least a little guidence and know how to help them on there way. there are some that will not be able to be helped but most will be thankfull. I have a friend at work (started a new job 3 week ago) and i have no intrest in forming any kind of aliance with him or showing him our world but i drop hints and share things i know with out relating it to preeping just so it is there and he might remember.

Back to bugging out sorry for the ramble, as much as we hate to think about it we will alwayse rely on others in a shtf situation. you cant do it all your self you need others and things you wont have or be able to do. knowing others in your area that will help or trade. dont think you can just park your trailer or put up a tent any whare and live and trade with any one you come across. Trust will be something that would take a long time and people will be very reluctant to even allow some one they dont know to approach them let alone talk long enough to trade. bugging out is the hardest thing to prep for because not only do you need a place and all the stuff related tro getting there and surviving there but you also need the friends and contacts in the area that you could rely on. you need to know the lay of the land for miles in any given direction and the movements and rutes of the aniumals in any given season. deer and moose have summer and winter areas that they travel to and if you dont know where that is you wont see them in that season. knowing where the grouse congragate and the rabits frequent is some of the most important things you need to know.... lakes and what fish species they have in them or natural springs in your area is very important. do you know this information? how about trails and ways to get to certin places without traveling by road? where predetors frequent like bears and wolves. this is why people try to tell others that bugging out is not such a good idea, it takes years to know this stuff about any given area. if you plan on bugging out, do your self a favor and think about it and try really planning what you need and what you need to know to survive.

I still maintain you need a group, over 8 people preferably 20-35 living in a small community or village set-up.
- you will not survive on your own
- yes, with skills you can exist, unless there are too many hostiles in the area, you are bound to slip up, then pop goes the weasel
- group dynamics aside, a group is the best defence for all occasions, if in the right area, with the right supplies and knowledge
- you will not survive long if you go to a Provincial Park or State Park, especially if it is a Drive in Location, everyone and their dogs will be there! Can you say OK Coral !!

Man I want to win the Lottery, then I will be in a position to start a Prepper Village up by Timmins, I am making a list and checking it twice and thrice.

20-35 for a larger village style setup with Blacksmith, Doctor etc etc
and security
food prep, food growing, food gathering, food creation

smallest group that would be safe would be about and is approximate number only... 4 to 8 or 10-13

The minimum numbers for an effective group would be greatly affected by the age, sex, necessary skill sets and the variety of skill sets of the members of the group. Two families of four adults and four children would probably be in trouble. Wildernessreturn was right on with 25 to 35 members for an effective group. Probably a good idea to start to build your core group now rather than later.

Yes, the numbers are all for adults only
I do not count kids in this, although some are worth their weight in Gold, most are not.

Thanks for the clarification.