The "Perfect All Around" Survival Rifle

WOW! I have not even shared how I feel personally about the issue of firearms and self defense. I think you will find that there is a great deal of correspondence between me and many of you on this issue. However, as I see it, I cannot talk about it because it violates the terms of use.

I have read the firearms act from start to finish. Although I believe that using self defence as a reason to obtain a firearm may lead to your application being refused due to concerns to public safety issues, I do not see anything making the issue illegal. If you know of a law that makes it illegal to discuss using a firearm for self defence purposes, please, by all means point me to the documentation. Until an actual current law is shown to me, then the discussion shall NOT BE CONSIDERED ILLEGAL.
Not trying to be rude, but I seriously don't like someone who is not a moderator, administrator, or owner of this site telling me what the rules are.
If you have proof of what you are saying...show it. And I don't mean talk to someone on a website...all laws of Canada are public and published.
Show me the law.

Case in point...excerpt from the Canadian Criminal Code

34. (1) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted without having provoked the assault is justified in repelling force by force if the force he uses is not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm and is no more than is necessary to enable him to defend himself.
Marginal note:Extent of justification

(2) Every one who is unlawfully assaulted and who causes death or grievous bodily harm in repelling the assault is justified if

(a) he causes it under reasonable apprehension of death or grievous bodily harm from the violence with which the assault was originally made or with which the assailant pursues his purposes; and

(b) he believes, on reasonable grounds, that he cannot otherwise preserve himself from death or grievous bodily harm.

I concede there is no law that specifically says it is illegal. Rather, you will not be permitted to legally acquire firearms or if you have them already, they may be confiscated. If no law is broken, then why confiscate personal property or not allow one to acquire firearms? If you have NOT broken the law, then by law, the government has to issue the license. Yet, they will NOT issue it if you are deemed to be acquiring the gun for self defense.

If we can talk about use of guns for SHTF (e.g., possibly self defense), then are you saying it is not illegal to do so? If so, then I'll merrily carry on... Not to be rude either, by what you think personally about the matter is hardly relevant. it is either against the rules or not. if you deem they are not, then i'm fine with that. All i ask is that the overlords here be consistent in the application of the rules...

117. The Governor in Council may make regulations

(a) regulating the issuance of licences, registration certificates and authorizations, including regulations respecting the purposes for which they may be issued under any provision of this Act and prescribing the circumstances in which persons are or are not eligible to hold licences;
(a.1) deeming permits to export goods, or classes of permits to export goods, that are issued under the Export and Import Permits Act to be authorizations to export for the purposes of this Act;
(b) regulating the revocation of licences, registration certificates and authorizations;
(c) prescribing the circumstances in which an individual does or does not need firearms
(i) to protect the life of that individual or of other individuals, o
(ii) for use in connection with his or her lawful profession or occupation;

Further, section 91(1) of the criminal code specifies that:
91. (1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), every person commits an offence who possesses a firearm without being the holder of

(a) a licence under which the person may possess it;

In just about every case where someone has used a weapon recently in Canada, that person is arrested. Further, they are often charged with a violation of the safe storage laws (gun). The end game is that the person, unless they really want to spend loads of loonies to fight it, loses firearms privileges for at least 5 yrs to life. Case in point: Ian Thompson. Look at what that poor guy has gone through... If self defense was legal, why is their regulation prescribing if it is an acceptable reason to "may issue" a license? did you catch that 'may issue'? That means that an unelected bureaucrat gets to decide whether or not you have a right to defend yourself.

From what I understand, Mr.Thompson was charged with the unsafe storage of a firearm, having two loaded guns in a bedside table. Any charges related to using a weapon for self defence were dropped, thus you have helped prove my point...it is not illegal, under the proper circumstances. Is it sad that these charges were laid in the first place...you bet! However, the system worked. Is it sad that he had to pay a lawyer to defend against charges that were improperly laid...you bet. But life isn't always fair...get over it.

As for your "overlords" comment, well, name calling is not welcome here, especially when directed at the admin. As I have much thicker skin than you, I will ignore it, but be aware that any of the other mods may decide to bring our welcome here to an end should this behavior continue.

Lastly, you have made several statements here that have been quickly disproven. Many of the members come here for clear info. Please, in future, double check yourself before making a statement.

Mr. Thompson was justified at the point he was being attacked. Because the court could not prove state of mind (e.g., self defense mode) it was thrown out. They were able to charge him with unsafe storage of a firearm, correct. But the prosecutor was hell bent on showing everyone that use of a gun for self defense is not to be tolerated. It does not change the fact that in statute, the crown determines if you can use a gun for self defense. To lie as to the reason why you are buying the gun in the first place is illegal, and then to talk about using a gun for self defense IS illegal.

furthermore, just because you say you have disproven my comments does not make it so. I will leave this site because you have clear Megalmaniac tendencies. There are far better prepper sites out there and I would encourage the more sensible people to leave this site, which is clearly full of sociopaths. Furthermore, you continue to run a double standard on this site. in another thread, two guys call be a F!@#Tard and yet you do NOTHING! However, I call you an overlord (your judgement is final, even when it is wrong and not in keeping with the real world or site rules) because, for you and IDRCC, it is an apt monacher. This is certainly a community I do not want to be a part of...

As you wish, leave if you like. I am sure you can find much better sites that would fit your personality. As for the poster who called you a name, maybe you shouldn't have started with the military crap. Those people risk their lives on a daily basis for guys like you and me...you insulted their integrity and got called out on it.
As far as disproving you, well you claimed it was against the law to discuss using a firearm for self defence. You admitted that no such law exists. I guess that actually does make it so. What bothers me is that you claim to be on a website giving advice and don't even know the law until someone makes you go look it up.

If you really want to leave...let me help.

furthermore, just because you say you have disproven my comments does not make it so. I will leave this site because you have clear Megalmaniac tendencies. There are far better prepper sites out there and I would encourage the more sensible people to leave this site, which is clearly full of sociopaths. Furthermore, you continue to run a double standard on this site. in another thread, two guys call be a F!@#Tard and yet you do NOTHING! However, I call you an overlord (your judgement is final, even when it is wrong and not in keeping with the real world or site rules) because, for you and IDRCC, it is an apt monacher. This is certainly a community I do not want to be a part of...

Actually it was ONE guy.. me..
still waiting for an answer by the way.. er umm. . for freedom of speech.. chit chat in person... >:)

The other mod is ICRCC.. please again get your facts straight !

Just a plain ol' (albeit good quality) 22 guage.

Great for hunting, not optimal for everything, but at least it will work and is a widely common gun and ammunition is plentiful. That being said, one of the original posts of a 12 guage shot gun also makes very good sense. Also versatile, and common ammunition.

As for the whole civil war thing or defense....methinks that if your planning to take on another force or country....you may be a little out numbered...perhaps the thought of having a gun(s) in the defense of your land may not work so well. For personal defense, I hesitate to use that term here in Canada because of Gun laws...but if ever really pushed into that situation, I would think that whether your holding a 22, a pellet gun, or a 30 o 6 semi...the deterent is when the oncoming threat sees the gun. If your getting into a gun fight whether with trained professionals or not....you've probably already lost...

sigh..
Ok from many years of experience training people to shoot on military ranges..

The 223 round is a joke. It's designed to Wound people. Not kill anything.
And like someone said before the only way you are getting more ammo after SHTF is by killing other people.

See there is a weird thing in the Geneva convention compared to hunting laws.
In hunting it is considered inhumane to use hard nose bullets, They don't expand they just punch holes so things at best bleed to death.
Soft nose expanding rounds stop in the body transferring all their energy in a few inches this tends to cause instant death unless all you hit is a limb.
In war it is considered inhuman to use expanding bullets.

This is a joke. See in war it's a matter of resources. If you kill a soldier you take one guy out of the battle. If you wound a guy. you take him, the field medic, the stretcher bearers, the ambulance drivers, the nurses, the doctors, and all the hospital resources..
War is about resources. The country with more wins.

So. Do you want to kill or wound? Granted sometimes wounding is ok.
Wounding can be useful against people but it is Never ok against animals.

the being able to carry more ammo is because of the US training method. They train to not look just spray. This means you need more ammo.
IN Survival you do not want to spray. You will have limited ammo no matter how much you have. Why waste it on trees.

If you have the luxury of a group having a few people with semi-automatics can be great but you don't want them for hunting.

The best survival weapon I have ever seen was something Canadian tire used to sell, it was made by Savage arms and came in two models.
It was a double barrel weapon with either 22lr and 410g shotgun or 308 and 12 gauge.
Single shot, break open design.
I woudl love to get one of these.

Ok Rant mode off.
Feel free to bitch at me.
I know people love their 223s. I will never use one if I have anything better.
Oh also semi autos are more trouble to keep working.

Savage has a few configurations for this...I think it's their model 64. Baikal also has a few configs for o/u models. There is a 20G/.22mag model I am considering...a bit pricey but the .22mag can be reloaded unlike the .22lr

Curious about reloading the .22WMR? Are you talking about complete reloading after the round has been fired?... or pulling the bullets from an unfired case, adding powder and changing the bullet? I have heard of the latter but never the former?

I looked into the statement on reloading, JAB I agree with you as well.

For new people to firearms please follow the links below, they state yes you can reload --- actually it is called Hand Loading.
take the bullet out, measure the brass and measure the powder
add more powder, modify the brass
reseat the bullet head or put in a different bullet head.

CAUTION ->
bullets may explode while RESEATING the Bullet Head

http://rimfireshooting.com/index.php?showtopic=719
and
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=683476&page=2

The first is a site dedicated to RimFire Shooters, quite a knowledge base and one that far exceeds mine in this issue.
Second site, all the info I looked at seems sound, good questions and great answers.

summary, the .22mag is a good round though for a little bit more, you get the more modern and updated .223 round.
I would stick with the .22lr which is a good round for small game and birds.
Not a fan of the .223 round at all, it is just a military round designed for the US military, its only saving grace is that there is a lot of it out there. Some dirt cheap to practise shooting with.

Note as well, there are some good over under rifle/shotgun combos out there, some discussed in this forum as well.

Hi All:

I'm going to jump in here to agree and disagree. Right rifle, wrong calibre. Ruger MIni 30, exactly the same rifle only in 7.62x39. Yes, you can hunt deer with the .223 but, it is awfully light and against bear or moose, forget it. Yes, the mini 30 was expensive but, I have backed it up with an SKS. Same calibre, so if one breaks I'm not standing there with hundreds of rounds of ammo I cannot use. A good used SKS is under $200.00 cdn. Also, I agree on the Remington 870, I have owned one since I was 18 years old (much older now ). A good solid pump, never jams. I have owned semi auto shot guns and keep pulling out my 870.

It is about personal preference but, it comes down to practice, practice and more practice. You cannot buy a gun, stick in a safe, never take it out and then be surprised if you can't hit the broad side of a barn.

My last thought on this is learn to do your own at home gunsmithing. Learn how to do minor repairs, mount scope, etc. Not only will it save you money now but, in a SHTF situation there will be no running to Bass Pro for repairs.
"Gunsmithing Made Easy" by Bruce Towsley, is one of the best.

Redneck, I don't agree on your calibre but, it is one of the finest semi auto rifles I have ever fired.

Cheers,

Curious about reloading the .22WMR? Are you talking about complete reloading after the round has been fired?... or pulling the bullets from an unfired case, adding powder and changing the bullet? I have heard of the latter but never the former?

Sorry, it's the .22 hornet that is centre fire. I was talking about reloading spent cartridges. I am a new gun owner, didn't give it much thought just a few years ago so still learning.