I agree the Russians and Pro-Russians have been starting this. I also think that if the pro-russians
like russia better and don't like Ukraine , then go back to russia. LEAVE ukraine or be peaceful if you intend to stay.

From Ukraine friends, they say
" thousands of men arriving from russia to ukraine daily to make all this mess happen , and they
have not closed the borders and the russians keep coming in "

My point is that the Ukraine and Russia are too interlinked for us to divide them enough to win them over. This is why all the internal conflict. It was likely a 50:50 ratio earlier but when the chips are down, many are now siding with the Russians. Russia still isn't stepping in any further even though the majority is publicly inviting them to. They know they will win at the polls. Meanwhile Russia is sitting back watching the EU lose adhesion with the US due to many of them will face difficulties from imposed sanctions. Were getting a black eye with world public opinion because we claim to promote peace while waving a sword! And the most amazing thing is that much of this is fulfilling prophecy. As earlier stated, I'm not a bible thumper, but have to admit that were following Revelations enough to make me ponder! The election have been moved up to 11 May. Let them vote and this time, we should send delegates from both Canada and the US to witness that they are fair elections. (And lets leave the electronic voting machines out of the picture....)

It was pretty hard not to miss that Putin's hour long boring speech to those in Cremea was him trying to convince Ukranian's the the KGB reign will not return. His speech was not welled prepared (IMO), but the cameras showed the people backed him fully. Logically those areas closet to Russia would be more pro Russian and those closer to the EU are more pro EU. (It is also logical that those with closer ties to Europe are more likely to be related to those of us who live in America.) This is why Kiev was the focal point at the start of this conflict. It held the greatest % of EU backing. Yet seeing the possible outcome and division of Ukraine seems to have swayed the people of Kiev to reconsider as events escalated. Seems all our presence has done is unite the majority of the Ukrainian people to side with Russia.

Further pursuit in this matter just paints us as the bad guy to countries not yet involved such as China and India...folks we don't need as enemies!

They have now released the Vice reporter and here is his interview. It is very interesting as he remains quite neutral throughout this interview. I have an even greater respect for his character and will follow his exploits as he portrays the most just news I can find so far. He is definitely not siding Russia but remains objective enough to give us a better idea as to where things are going. I have to laugh as he bumps into Canadian reporters first upon his release. Please note that hey considered these were Ukrainians who took him, not Russians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQGRJN4Radk

You have to admire the Ukranian people in their tactics to prevent escalation of violence. They found a method to disarm soldiers I have never seen used before in any conflict. Passing civilians seem to converge on military vehicles and demand them to disarm like they were talking to their own child. This instant banding together that the citizens achieve while showing little fear of the possible retaliation is just amazing to me. They deflate the soldiers resolve and turn them into scorned children before our eyes!

Can you imagine that maybe we might do the same someday in our near future? Have our soldiers been taught so well that this tactic would fail if used on them? I hope not!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvxgkIIIVio

So here is a post from American news. It states that there is only one kind of news coming out of Ukraine now and that is the voice of Russia. They state that the people of Ukraine cannot be heard yet it can be heard everywhere on YouTube. They show thousands of Ukrainian's are now ousting EU from each city without any Russian support. The people have chosen and it isn't EU. Obama seems to seek reason to go in before the May 11 elections. I betting something will happen soon.... Anyways, here is the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxfWg0Mltf8

Lest we forget!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_settlements_in_the_Soviet_Union
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact

Before you read the news learn some history, as "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it!"

With a history like that, no wonder Putin's speech was so focused on trying to convince the Ukrainian people those days will not return. It seems that the Ukrainian people now have to choose the lesser of the evils just to exist day to day. Russia has a violent past record that would be hard to ignore and yet NATO has a violent present day record that is evident even for the younger generation to see! It is hard not to sympathize with their present dilemma. If they go with the EU, military forces will be set up throughout the Ukraine and their own internal conflicts will be a constant reminder that they likely chose wrong! They have to likely go with Russia just on the point that the Ukraine will break apart otherwise.

The EU would have stood a far better chance of winning the people over had they not been caught manipulating so many of the current events. They were bold strategies and might have worked better if they weren't in such a rush to conquer. The US's financial crisis is the logical reason for the rush and Putin seems a patient man who knows he has won without even throwing a punch. World opinion is at an all time low for NATO and the EU due to this poor planning. Many in Europe know too the hardships that would follow for them if the US gets their way. If the EU doesn't commit to a full out frontal attack soon, they will have to fold their hand as too many holes in the media are leaking the real events which are occurring daily.

no wonder Putin's speech was so focused on trying to convince the Ukrainian people those days will not return.

Putin speech was focused on that, while his hands were grabbing Crimea. I don't think he convinced anyone.

It seems that the Ukrainian people now have to choose the lesser of the evils just to exist day to day.

You might say that, life in general about is very rarely black and white, but in this case the lesser evil is much less of an evil than the bigger one. That's one of my biggest points in this discussion. The choice is between a union of democratic countries and a federation led by an autocratic leader supported by a deeply corrupt, institutionalized mafia style government with no respect for individual rights, freedom of speech and all the other treats that you and all the western people enjoyed here while under US imperialism.

and yet NATO has a violent present day record that is evident even for the younger generation to see!

Please educate me on that. I suppose you're talking about former Yugoslavia but I'm not sure as I don't recall any NATO supported violence there.

Here is an analysis of the Ukraine situation done by aljazeera:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/05/ukraine-vs-russia-mafia-state--2014512164523249486.html

They should be pretty objective and can't be accused of being on the US side. This is what they say:

Being intimately linked to Russia at many different levels, a successful, democratic and tolerant Ukraine threatens the existence of the mafia state and that's what is at stake for the Kremlin rulers.

Both sides are evil....it just seems we are a part of the more evil side these days! If you swallow the line that we do this in the name of democracy, and spread such propaganda to influence others, you are fanning the flames of a fire we lit. There is so much "real evidence" one can see with just watching You Tube! It shows large crowds of Ukrainian people everywhere as a whole, constantly trying to stop the EU controlled Ukrainian Army from gaining control over strategic locations. It shows only the young who are violent and amidst that violence are shouting "Seig Heil", painting swastikas using the Nazi salute. You see no older people partaking in any video likely because can remember too well what history records! They It shows US representatives shaking hands with these Nazi extremists and the US influence behind many of the violent actions occurring. If you can't find these links, just follow this thread backwards.

Russia never invaded Cremea! They are long times Russians! They invited Russian intervention when a government coup was occurring which was obviously backed by the EU. Is it just coincidence that the only people dying in this conflict are pro-Russian? Many pro-Russians are holding cities and awaiting Russian intervention that does not come! Why? Because if they did, the EU would blame Russia further! But by not interfering, the EU is getting a blacker eye each day and Russia is looking more just. The EU's actions have united Ukraine as a country like never before, just not on our side! The Ukrainian people don't want their country divided and don't want it devastated by war. They have set a new and great example for other countries to no longer be manipulated by the super powers struggle for dominance.

I now await what is the next play as I do not think the EU will accept things as they are playing out. Imposed sanctions on Russia will create imposed sanctions on Europe. Fuel prices will likely skyrocket and only the rich will have won, no matter the final outcome! But go ahead, argue that Russia is the cause of all if it makes you feel better, for they too are corrupt...but their hands are clean of this present issue and we all know it!

Just because russians have been occupying crimea, does not give russians the right to take it for their own, or
even vote to take it away from Ukraine. Any such event is null and void.

Crimea belonging to Ukraine was decided upon awhile back and an agreement was signed, including where
Russia signed it too, Ukraine became sovereign , got rid of their nuclear weapons, with gaurantees
against countries making attempts against them.

It is does not matter if crimea should have OR should not have been made part of ukraine years ago.
That is "what" they decided, agreed upon and signed.

Attempts by Putin to take Crimea , is an act of war against Ukraine.

It seems I may not be popular for stating this.

Just because russians have been occupying crimea, does not give russians the right to take it for their own, or
even vote to take it away from Ukraine. Any such event is null and void.

Crimea belonging to Ukraine was decided upon awhile back and an agreement was signed, including where
Russia signed it too, Ukraine became sovereign , got rid of their nuclear weapons, with gaurantees
against countries making attempts against them.

It is does not matter if crimea should have OR should not have been made part of ukraine years ago.
That is "what" they decided, agreed upon and signed.

Attempts by Putin to take Crimea , is an act of war against Ukraine.

It seems I may not be popular for stating this.

Why do folks not see that Russia isn't doing this! It's the Ukraine that is voting to go with Russia. It's the pro EU that is the cause of all the violence. It is only the pro EU that have killed....only the pro Russians that have died! 54 + 20 = 74 deaths...all pro Russian...Why? Because they are non-violent so far and that makes them easy targets...I know our media says different. I have tried to show all that what they say doesn't mean they are telling the truth. How come even the kidnapped Vice reporter still says the large majority of the people are pro Russian? He showed that they don't trust the American media and even after being kidnapped, still says the same!.....here is another link that you can't ignore from May 12 elections.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrtBCDDOUSE

No violence at the pro Russian side, thousands voting....no Putin.....just Ukrainians! Please note that I only see older people on the pro Russian side. The young seem to be lured by the aspect of violence while the pro Russian side shows peaceful protest against Ukrainian military action...shall I get the Nazi extremist footage to show who we are in bed with? Take some time and cruise You Tube with Ukraine as a search parameter. I watch the ones in Russian and Ukrainian folks uploading too but figure no one here would watch them if I posted them. It bothers me too that Canada is involved in such as this and Libya too.

I was just sent this link that shows a conspiracy for the preparation of Odessa Massacre. This is where the 54 deaths had occurred earlier. Ukrainian witnesses put together various videos showing the EU police releasing the so called instigator and pro Russian persons that they had arrested after a shooting. The shooting was staged to insight the crowd. Judge for yourself if this was staged. The fire truck was even withheld by the EU and you can watch it all play out for yourself. So how would the pro Russians get these folks to stage all this? It is obvious that the EU were the instigator again!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4dJRnI-X8Q

Why do folks not see that Russia isn't doing this! It's the Ukraine that is voting to go with Russia. It's the pro EU that is the cause of all the violence. It is only the pro EU that have killed....only the pro Russians that have died! 54 + 20 = 74 deaths...all pro Russian...Why? Because they are non-violent so far and that makes them easy targets...I know our media says different. I have tried to show all that what they say doesn't mean they are telling the truth. How come even the kidnapped Vice reporter still says the large majority of the people are pro Russian? He showed that they don't trust the American media and even after being kidnapped, still says the same!.....here is another link that you can't ignore from May 12 elections.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrtBCDDOUSE

No violence at the pro Russian side, thousands voting....no Putin.....just Ukrainians! Please note that I only see older people on the pro Russian side. The young seem to be lured by the aspect of violence while the pro Russian side shows peaceful protest against Ukrainian military action...shall I get the Nazi extremist footage to show who we are in bed with? Take some time and cruise You Tube with Ukraine as a search parameter. I watch the ones in Russian and Ukrainian folks uploading too but figure no one here would watch them if I posted them. It bothers me too that Canada is involved in such as this and Libya too.

I got as far as the rap music in the video you posted and had to turn it off. For the sake of disclosure I will say that I have no stake in the conflict one way or another and believe that all outcomes will end poorly for the average Ukrainian. The conflict, as I see it, is being done for the benefit of two or more groups of privileged Ukrainian to determine which will enjoy power for the next five to ten years.

Having grown up in Canada during the Cold War, I have an ingrained distrust for the Russians. It's irrational and I recognize it. That does not mean that the Russians aren't stirring the pot in the hopes that the group they support are successful. It looks like the super power manoeuvering from the 60s through 90s and one would be naive to think that either power was not up to their elbows in it. I also believe that there has been violence perpetrated by both the pro-Russian and traditional Ukrainian camps. Do the Ukrainian's have a higher body count? I don't know and honestly don't really care. The Russians will recognize the votes for independence from Ukraine (or for dependence on Russia as the case may be) and will decry any federal vote in Kiev that does not go their way. The Ukrainian lobby both inside the country and in the West will do the exact opposite. Knuckle apparently has a stake in the conflict and is passionately arguing for "his team"; others have an interest in "their team". Let's just not pretend that we don't see the marionette strings directing BOTH sides of this little drama, shall we? Just as we should acknowledge the 70 plus year old strings tugging at Canada and encouraging our paltry contribution. As a tax payer and a citizen, that is where I start to care. Like Knuckle, I'm not overly pleased with our involvement in this and other conflicts. I suspect my reasons are different though. I'd sooner see us declare war on countries fishing illegally in our waters. (frickin' Spanish,Russians, Americans, Japanese, etc, etc, etc)

I can't imagine how I could have a stake in the events which occur in Ukraine unless it is that Canada is participating in global profiteering. I can't imagine why we are there other than we fear our American neighbour so much that we follow like a puppy lest we have to face their rath! Back in the 70's when I was in the military, we considered ourselves a neutral country and did not interfere with others conflicts. Yet we were trained to distrust all that was Russian and all we knew of Russia is what was drilled into us from youth. The blatant lies that were spread during the events before and after 9/11 caused the awakening of distrust in our government for myself and others. The realization of seeing occupation of other countries that had pathetic armies to combat their invaders and seeing the devastation left behind....we are not just in our actions, no matter how the media paints it!

Many who come to this forum do so because they no longer put trust in their own government. Yet it seems that some still hoot and cheer when they see the aggressive and manipulative tactics taken by their government against any who get in their way. I myself joined this forum because I haven't quite given up on man yet, as opposed to trusting wholly in God's intervention(as my wife does). I assume that time has taught many other ex-military persons here to distrust the actions taken by their government in many of the same ways as myself. I have fought enough and caused enough trouble in my lifetime to finally realize that I fight much better when I know I'm in the right. Nothing I see today makes me feel we are in the right!

I have noted that when I watch boxing and kick boxing on TV these days, that my approach is rarely the same as others around me. I devoted almost 20 years to full contact training(note I did not say sports), not for the usual reasons but for the need to release built up aggression. When watching these sports, I imagine I'm the losing opponent and try to decipher his/my opponents weaknesses and how he could still be beaten. I even consider his/my reduced strength with each landed blow received because I've been there. (If you have participated in full contact sports or even been in a fight or two, you know what I mean). I don't know if I can blame the military for my aggressive nature or if I was always this way...I do know that I no longer get in as many fights likely because I no longer look to fight! I even trained with my wife daily for 6 months or so until she defended herself against another biker chick and kicked her butt. She refused to train further as she did not like how easily reflex action kicked in ...it was many years later before I could even relate to her thinking on that one! (and the nickname Knuckle was one I got from riding a 1947 Knucklehead Harley for 21 years, not for fighting)

I prep somewhat these days because I feel I have to. And I started coming to this forum because I think I have to try to dissuade those who consider "Lock & Load" against their fellow Canadians the only option in bad times. I do not wish to lose all faith in man but seeing current events unfold today and noting how many do not see past the misinformation being spread dampens my belief in man. With over 1,700 US architectural engineers calling BS on the Twin Towers and Building 7 collapse, I would think more folks would look for further deception before taking sides on another country takeover. I wonder too if many just find it is easier to accept their stories knowing that external conflict would be better than the internal conflict which may otherwise occur sooner if the US does not create a war soon.

- Could you imagine us using those same tactics that the Ukrainian people are using and getting our soldiers not to fight? It does seem unlikely doesn't it?

- Now can you see why it is the young who seem bent on wanting chaos in the Ukraine and the older who don't! The old have seen violence in their lifetime already and don't wish more...the young are just naive!

Since I'm trying to keep the Ukrainian updates thread as unbiased as I can(for being me), I thought that I should place this You Tube link here instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NeosP8D5Ho

It is an American ranting against Obama, but he does come the same conclusion that I do. Some event will occur in the future to make the US look as if they have to fight... What can I say, watch it so I can maybe say "I told you so" later and you will know what I mean 😆 😎